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[Vector]

http://employment.findlaw.com/employment-discrimination/employees-rights-101.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/glennllopis/2012/03/19/6-reasons-employees-must-speak-up-to-thrive-at-work/

Neonivek, please either leave the conversation or stop flouncing around about how you're going to leave, because at this point it's looking like an attempt at manipulation.


However, addressing your point, when you're an intern at someone's company you don't run around demanding that the higher-ups do your work for you, or telling your boss: "Hey, I should be running this joint. This is how you wanna run your company" on the first day. There are appropriate ways to act when you're submitting to someone else's leadership, and I guess that's kind of my real point.

A man who wants to join the feminist movement needs to realize that he's not going to be in charge, and behave accordingly. You're not the expert; you're there to learn. Sometimes you'll have something to ask, sometimes you'll have advice, or suggestions, but women are going to be in charge, not you. Y'all can learn how to defer to our experiences. If you find a woman who hates women, let the women sort it out amongst ourselves--believe me, we will. Your job is to work on the men who won't listen to us, but will listen to you.

[Neonivek]

http://www.inc.com/brian-hamilton/4-tips-to-get-your-employees-to-talk.html


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/make-employees-feel-opinions-count-22039.html

I am out of the "Women" discussion. You want to talk business? I know business.

[smjjames]

Um, since I have no idea what the current discussion is and I'll just assume that this is about women in video/computer games....

I'd have to say that in CivV, Theodora (of the Byzantines) is pretty sexy, though not bare breast sexy or anything like that, and Boudiccea (sp?), Warrior Queen of the Celts is sexy in a warrior way, and violent, you should see some of her rather dramatic diplo scenes. The diplomatic screens are exactly the same and there is no gameplay difference whether you play a male or female leader.

Catherine of Russia is definetly a backstabby bitch though XD

Once upon a time (CIvII), we could select either male or female leaders in the Civ series and honestly, I think it would be more balanced with the sexes. Though understandably it might be hard to find a good female leader for some civs.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Shakira Zulu?

[Bauglir]

To the extent that I agree about the intern analogy, the issue here is very much that you need to be prepared to have a conversation where you assume the other person is correct from the get-go, and in which your experiences aren't necessarily relevant to the topic. You are certainly not in a position of authority, but whether authority is even relevant at all I don't know. I'll defer to Vector for the moment on whether or not it is, because it's a fairly minor component of what I actually do want to say. To wit:

When it comes to feminism, it's perfectly fine to have a dick, just don't be one.

[Neonivek]

http://www.collegecentral.com/Article.cfm?CatID=car&ArticleID=4039

to you Bauglir.

[Vector]

http://www.collegecentral.com/Article.cfm?CatID=car&ArticleID=4039

to you Bauglir.

The Boss Is Not Always Right, But He's Always The Boss

Career Tip: Success is in delivering the message
Of course, a great deal depends on how the message is delivered. Obviously, it is not wise to declare, "Boss, you are wrong." Never discuss the supervisor's mistakes with those who are not involved in making the correction.
When you have to point out an error, make the message as impersonal as possible. Do not point fingers or become accusatory. Be sure you have the facts to support your case and stick to them.
Wrap the message in diplomatic language:
-- "Have you noticed that ...?"
-- "What would happen if we took another approach?"
-- "I am not being critical but ..."
-- "I know you would want me to tell you about ..."
Offer to help. Always have a suggestion for corrective action or a better way to do something so the mistake will not be repeated.
Take your fair share, and more, of the responsibility if you have had a role in creating the error.
Remember, this is not a game of "gotcha" in which you see how many times you catch the boss in a mistake. Don't keep score. Your trip on the career path will be smoother and more rewarding when you follow these career tips.

From your very own article.

[Shakerag]

Wouldn't it be more effective and faster to focus on bringing about a completely level playing field for everyone, not just focus on specific groups? It frustrates me to no end that we, as a people, can't manage to just not be jerks to each other. The whole damn system needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the foundation up.

I'm largely in agreement with this guy.  Just work against inequality across the board. 

[Neonivek]

From your very own article

And?

I know what is in the articles I post.

[sal880612m]

I am out of the "Women" discussion. You want to talk business? I know business.

This is semantics. You have latched on to an analogy used to give context, not the talking point itself.

I really don't think Graknorke meant the statements to be separated though. More along the lines of you shouldn't blindly follow orders when you either disagree with them or don't understand them. Context: Soldiers should not blindly follow orders to round up and imprison an entire ethnicity (hope to god they would disagree with such orders now but haven't always in the past). It is harder for me to give context to the latter option but that is something that can be solved by asking questions.

Always several posts later.

[Neonivek]

Soldiers?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/27-1/Ch10.htm

[Bauglir]

Wouldn't it be more effective and faster to focus on bringing about a completely level playing field for everyone, not just focus on specific groups? It frustrates me to no end that we, as a people, can't manage to just not be jerks to each other. The whole damn system needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the foundation up.

I'm largely in agreement with this guy.  Just work against inequality across the board.

Yes, there's no disagreement. Feminism is a component of that, this objection is like objecting to solar panels reducing reliance on fossil fuel imports because what's really important is pollution.

@Vector
If Neonivek didn't mean to say what you've just pointed out, I will be flabbergasted at how ineffectively he made whatever point he was trying to make. I cannot imagine how else it could be interpreted than, "Don't try to win, that isn't even remotely the point." So I'm cautiously optimistic that he's changed opinions? I dunno.

[smjjames]

Shakira Zulu?

I don't remember what the female avatar was named for the Zulu, and the Zulu have been a part of the Civ series since Civ2. I was mainly thinking of well known female leaders, the Aztecs don't really have one and the Maya did have their warrior queens though.

I'm sure if the civ team looked hard enough, they'd find a prominent female leader somewhere in the history of all the civs.

The miltaristic/expansionist civs are generally backstabby if you neighbor them or otherwise give them the chance.

[Neonivek]

My point is on business. You are using business as a template, but you are misapplying it.

Since while indeed in a business you are employed you are expected to bite your tongue and get the job done. Yet business is a place that thrives off of the employee and their thoughts and opinion. They need a voice and they have rights all nessisary to ensure things run smoothly and ethically.

the idea on how business works "My way or the highway and you should hold your tongue" is misapplying how business works.

Hence why I kept linking worker rights, soldier rights, employer strategies, and worker strategies. It contradicts the imagery you are presenting.

Since if you say "This is like a job" you must also remember that with a job these rules exist and have checks and balances in place to make sure they function. It doesn't work in a vacuum.

[sal880612m]

Soldiers?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/27-1/Ch10.htm

You have latched on to an analogy used to give context, not the talking point itself.

Edit: remove this is semantics, really wasn't the point.