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[Rolepgeek]

@sal: Which is worse; underestimating the problem and trying to fix a little, or overestimating and trying to fix too much?

I am going to be a dick and take the mathematical OR on that. Both are bad. If you make me choose I would say underestimating is worse.
Also I don't really know what you are getting at, discussing this on a forum is all well and good but it is our actions and attitudes IRL that will really make a difference as far as I am concerned, and due to the fact that people lack the ability to be omnipresent we are limited to making those kind of differences in the area we currently are.

Doesn't mean we can't try~

[sal880612m]

No it doesn't. There is value putting it out there that you are against sexism regardless of where you do so.

[Orange Wizard]

@sal: Which is worse; underestimating the problem and trying to fix a little, or overestimating and trying to fix too much?

I am going to be a dick and take the mathematical OR on that. Both are bad. If you make me choose I would say underestimating is worse.
Also I don't really know what you are getting at, discussing this on a forum is all well and good but it is our actions and attitudes IRL that will really make a difference as far as I am concerned, and due to the fact that people lack the ability to be omnipresent we are limited to making those kind of differences in the area we currently are.

Wouldn't that be XOR?

[sal880612m]

Isn't XOR one or the other but not BOTH?

[Hubris Incalculable]

@sal: Which is worse; underestimating the problem and trying to fix a little, or overestimating and trying to fix too much?

I am going to be a dick and take the mathematical OR on that. Both are bad. If you make me choose I would say underestimating is worse.
Also I don't really know what you are getting at, discussing this on a forum is all well and good but it is our actions and attitudes IRL that will really make a difference as far as I am concerned, and due to the fact that people lack the ability to be omnipresent we are limited to making those kind of differences in the area we currently are.

Wouldn't that be XOR?

Time to look at some

Code: (Truth tables) [Select]

OR:
A B | Q
-------
0 0 | 0
0 1 | 1
1 0 | 1
1 1 | 1

XOR:
A B | Q
-------
0 0 | 0
0 1 | 1
1 0 | 1
1 1 | 0
With OR the output is true so long as any input is true, but not neither, while with XOR the output is only true when only one input is true, but not both or neither. Sal's usage is correct.

[Descan]

Wouldn't NOR be the preference, then? :V

[sal880612m]

Not honestly sure but I don't think so. The question was which was worse and they both are worse than getting it exactly right.

Anyway last Off-Topic post for me.

[Orange Wizard]

<snippy snippy the truth table... y?>

I guess that's why I failed my Computer Science class.

[BlindKitty]

It's been 11 pages, but I think I should explain myself a little, in case anybody still cares.

a) per 'you' (and 'wrong ways') I was meaning anybody trying to push for 'not making games like this'. Not that I'm saying that anybody here is pushing for censorship, but I have seen some posts suggesting that some of you indeed would like to do that - but I may be misinterpreting stuff. Also, have not seen the video, but it is certainly not the right way, at least due to examples mess-up. It is a critically bad idea to use misleading example in cases like this, at it will make people who are unsure about the concern in question swing to the view opposite of the speaker (as they can clearly see mistakes and are led to believe that whole video is in fact bullshit).

b) non-sexist games might be 99% majority, but still if you want to promote them, you can go out and buy them. This has nothing to do with them being rare or special.

[EnigmaticHat]

In sometimes blazing fast thread like this its nice if you quote whatever you're replying to, even if that means quoting yourself and replacing the quote with "-snip-".

[ed boy]

Yes, because the likelihood of being accused of rape and subsequently actually going to jail for it, when maybe 3% of actual rapists spend any time whatsoever in jail, is equally as likely as rape is for women.

You don't need a false rape accusation to send you to jail for it to ruin your life.

Yes, your life is so much worse than the person who actually got raped.

I did not claim that being accused of rape is worse than being raped, nor did I claim that it was as likely to happen.

The areas in which men are 'victims' are results of sexism against women; if rape wasn't so goddamned common, none of that would be an issue, now would it?

That's a bold claim. I'm going to need you to back it up.

It would be a lot more difficult to convince people of fake rape, if real rape wasn't everywhere.

I mean back up the part in bold.

God. I mean, honestly, how the fuck is being accused of rape worse, or as likely to happen, as actually being raped?

I did not claim that being accused of rape is worse than being raped, nor did I claim that it was as likely to happen. I claimed that false rape accusations are a really bad thing, that can have life-ruining consequences.

You're right. They suck. You know what else sucks, worse? Rape. Weird, isn't it. SEXISM IS A THING, AND IT'S WORSE FOR WOMEN. Jeezus fucking christ.

I don't get why you keep interpreting "this is bad" as "this is worse than rape". Rape is not the minimum level of badness for something to be worth considering.

1) A lot of people handle equality in a male and female capacity, rather then just one gender. Believing that true equality is obtained when the issues of both sexes are handled. Most forms of feminism, for example, believes in this.
2) Some people do not believe that the severity of the one groups problem completely occludes the issues of another.

1) I believe in equality between the sexes. I just think we need to focus on sexism towards women first, because it's more likely to result in more terrible things, and in this thread, since it was originally made around sexism towards women. If there's a general sexism thread, I'm all for it.
2) Completely, no. For the moment, yes.

1) I honestly don't understand how you can conclude that. Recognizing sexism is not a zero-sum game; you can identify both male-directed sexism and female-directed sexism a the same time.
2) Saying that the discrimination that one person experiences is worse than another is a massive can of worms. For instance, if you can compare female-directed sexism with male-directed sexism, can you compare racism and sexism? Can you compare those with ableism?

[Mindmaker]

Being accused of rape is far less likely to traumatize you and give you mental scars. Being accused of rape isn't a violation of your humanity.

The case of Brian Banks comes to mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Banks_%28American_football%29
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1681576010/the-brian-banks-story

Not saying that it's happening anywhere near with the same frequency, just that it does happen.

[miauw62]

Feminism focusing on sexism against both men and women seems, to me, more likely to succeed than purely focusing on sexism against women. (Or men, I guess.). It seems logical that men would be more inclined to support feminist movements that also campaign against sexism against men than a movement that focusses solely on sexism against women. After all, men make up about half of the population, effectively cutting the amount of supporters you have in half (in theory, I guess it'd be less in practice) is not very beneficial.

(Men and women can mostly be swapped around in this post, I just didn't really feel like putting "and vice versa" after every sentence)

[Cheeetar]

Theoretically, sexism, racism, and all sorts of 'isms' are all just discrimination. That doesn't mean consolidating all movement against these things would make them stronger. Some people want to focus on particular bad things- that doesn't mean you're disallowed from focusing on other bad things.

[Neonivek]

b) non-sexist games might be 99% majority, but still if you want to promote them, you can go out and buy them. This has nothing to do with them being rare or special.

But it makes it pointless as doing it that way makes your buying choices more unnoticeable.

---

Most Feminism is Egalitarian with a female focus and thus deals with both sides of the coin. A lot of them deal directly with how men are brought up, socialized, and the issues they might face because it directly affects women.

The issue is miauw62 comes more from people who push feminism as IF it was "The only way" to fight for or recognize women's rights.

For example I've seen a lot of people push against people who say "Now I am not a feminist but I believe in these things feminists believe in" at which the feminist goes "Well then you are feminist". (Mind you most of the time this is said because they see it as more of an attack on the validity of feminism... rather then a statement of overall neutrality)

Essentially rather then making it a "You are either with us, or against us". Which as we seen in this thread is quite large, where even mentioning a male issue is "belittling women issues".

Or what this really boils down to is...

You have to separate Feminism from the way certain people use it. A lot of forms of feminism are a lot more sane and coherent then people would make it seem (not ALL are sane... but then again not all forms of Liberalism are sane, not all forms of animal rights are sane). It is why I am really bugged by people who say feminism is a joke, because then they spout quotes from only the worst sources.

It is like Animal Rights, you have to separate Animal Rights from PETA.