So, I'mma reply to a couple things here.
First off, UltraValican.
THESE ARE COMMONLY EXPRESSED OPINIONS THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I HEAR THEM CONSTANTLY. PEOPLE, STOP TELLING ME THIS SHIT DOESN'T EXIST AND IT ISN'T A FUCKING PROBLEM. I DON'T CARE IF YOU LIVE IN A VACUUM IN WHICH NO MISOGYNY IS EVER EXPRESSED, BECAUSE THAT IS A BUBBLE, NOT THE WORLD.
THESE ARE NOT COMMONLY EXPRESSED OPINIONS THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I HAVE NEVER HEARD THESE SAID IN ANY SERIOUS CAPACITY. PEOPLE, STOP TELLING ME THIS SHIT EXITS AND IS A FUCKING PROBLEM. I DON"T CARE IF YOU LIVE IN A BUBBLE WHERE LUDICROUS STRAWMEN EXIST, BECAUSE THAT IS A BUBBLE, NOT THE WORLD.
I'm going to start by saying: you're wrong. They are. Just because
you don't see them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Do you not believe in racism, either? Because there's plenty of shit to prove that wrong. But to give an example of why you're wrong; your logic also allows the following statement: "I have never gotten malaria, therefore malaria only exists in tiny isolated bubbles, and isn't actually a serious disease capable of threatening many people." If you replace "malaria" with "smallpox" then this is partially true. It's a rectangle-square situation, and you yelling back makes you seem like an asshole(and from the way you've been posting, I've been getting the impression that that's correct), and a misogynist. Do you honestly think misogyny isn't a problem because you, as a man, have never been subjected to it?
Really?Most men don't listen to us.
The men that do have an obligation to speak to other men. That's what being a good ally is. Leverage your power to demand better conditions for others.
This is the sort of dialog that sort of makes me scratch my head and wonder why people bother IF that is what they honestly believe.
Cause trust me NO ONE CARES by association. You can fill a guy up with all the equality rights knowledge you want, but he isn't anymore convincing.
I see, I see...so what you're saying, is because it's difficult to improve their situation, they shouldn't even bother. Just like the slaves! Well, golly gee, Neonivek, that sure makes me feel a lot better knowing it's pointless to even try! Now I can go about my life completely guilt-free about 51% of the population being oppressed!
And for my next trick, I'll point out that you saying 'trust me' is a logical fallacy going off either a. Anecdotal evidence, useless in this situation, or b. ass-pull evidence, equally useless, but in all situations. 'Cause trust
me, I know people who I've been able to show how things are sexist, and gotten them to change their behavior, at least slightly. Hell, I've been that person a stupendous amount of times. Yes, there will always be assholes who refuse to see logic. Just because they exist doesn't mean we should give up altogether.
That made just about zero sense. You don't seem to be getting what they're saying. You're saying 'well, dogs can be characters too'. No. Not really. Yes, in Dragon Age: Origins one of the party members is a dog. How much depth is there to the dog? What are it's goals, it's dreams, it's ambitions? Cloud and Crono both have those. So does Samus, to a degree(Mario could certainly be replaced by a dog, for most of the games). The dog? The dog just has 'protect the master, get food'. If you aren't able to tell the difference between a narrative character, and a narrative dog, well...that's your own problem, but don't allow sexism to perpetuate just because of that
Crono and Cloud never speak for themselves in their respective game. The same goes with Samus in the vast majority of her games, the only exception being the game where she might as well have not even been there.
They could easily be replaced with a dog and lose nothing. Slap a tape recorder onto their body and there you go.
Also a dog has a full psychology... As do most mammals. I know most people like to make them VERY bestial to justify their treatment, but no.
Also just because I disagree with "you could replace the character with a dog" as a basis for sexism doesn't mean I am suddenly for sexism.
It would be like saying if I don't agree with Patriot Law that I am Anti-America and hate the USA. I am allowed to have disagreements, even fundamental ones, without going off the deep end.
Better yet you mentioned Dragon Age... How many characters act EXACTLY like the dog? Most of them? How many of them could be entirely replaced by your dog with a tape recorder giving stock phrases? Most of them (A FEW remain relevant)
Okay, what the fuck does this have to do with anything? You're willfully misinterpreting the point, and it's getting annoying. Tape recorders have nothing to do with anything. It's not about being able to speak. It's about goals, ambitions, the things that make someone human. Many female 'characters' in games don't have that. Just like dogs don't have that.
That's what we're trying to get at, not some bullshit about speaking.
Additionally, I wasn't claiming you were sexist; I was stating that by refusing to acknowledge the sexism inherent in this and not wanting to do anything about it, you're allowing sexism to perpetuate in our culture. You're like the kid on the playground who sees someone else getting punched in the face by a bully, and because he figures the teacher won't do anything about it, goes back to playing on the swings without even trying to help.
The point isn't 'oh there are no female characters'. The point is; how many female characters are there, versus how many male characters? What is their role in the game? Are they established physical characters, or are they eye-candy? And yes, they can be eye-candy and established corporeal narrative characters at the same time, but they don't need to be, all the time, which is the current trend.
Yes but my statement was mostly that the trend you are seeing isn't as overwhelming as it appears as soon as you step out the shooters.
But it is still an overwhelming trend. That's the problem.
That's rather difficult, due to the large numbers of them. It's making the analogy of penis to breasts, in which case I can say Laura Croft, right off the bat. Whether it's out and flailing or not isn't the issue. The issue is that, how do you like being forced to, during every cutscene, where the artwork and character design is meant to draw attention to it, have your eyes drawn to a bulging erection in the man's skintight pants?
You are acting as if I like Breast Camera and it isn't the one thing that makes me groan constantly at Ghost in a Shell... or that the one thing I actively disliked about Soul Calibur 4, in spite of liking that game, is how EVERYONE's breast sizes grew a few sizes.
But what I am saying is mostly that. There is no direct parallel. People constantly use the penis as an example, but the penis' direct parallel isn't a woman's breasts and by HECK no female videogame character has ever had... THAT on full display... well unless it was a porn.
But Porn and "women's rights" have such a complicated relationship that you would go insane (MOSTLY because unlike Videogame depiction... There are MANY feminist views on porn, many of which contradict eachother, all active and shared between multiple everyday people at a time.) but my view on the whole ordeal is that it is completely and utterly unsolvable and shouldn't be touched by mortal hands.
I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy. But it's the closest one, because those are the sexual parts of the body most commonly 'on display' for either gender(that and the ass, but I'm not gonna get into that right now). I'm not saying you are one of the 13 year old kids or 40 year old men who smile at those cutscenes. I'm just saying, imagine if you were a straight woman in the situation of wanting to play a nice, violent video game, and then hey look breasts-in-your-face. Now who's in a more oppressed situation? Them, or you? Yeah, I thought so.
For that matter, I tried to avoid mentioning porn, because it has zero relevance to this discussion. And another note, why is it so hard for you to type vagina, when you can type penis so easily? I didn't think it was difficult.
Look I know I am saying a lot of things... but my arguments are mainly focused on how specific arguments are poor or need to be expanded to have any worth.
I am saying that "Replaced by a dog" isn't anywhere near as negative of a connotation as it tries to make it out to be simply because most characters could be replaced by a dog (as well as most main protagonists) and a dog still is a more rounded character then it could seem on the surface. Not that women aren't often put into valueless roles in videogames and never get important roles (though I think it happens WAY more then what some of you are implying.)
So expand on them for us. Don't just point out holes; fill them. Otherwise you're not contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion beyond dead weight.