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[penguinofhonor]

So... being taught to be fearful more often is privilege now? I really don't get your points, Neonivek.

[Neonivek]

So... being taught to be fearful more often is privilege now? I really don't get your points, Neonivek.

Being taught how to be safe more often then men is obviously a privilege women have over men. Men want to be safe too.

It is the most easily reversed of the ones I've seen. Mostly because it isn't' a privilege in either direction so it is easy to use its broken logic against itself.

It isn't about how safe either of them are, it is about being taught how to be safe... and while something like "Being told not to be out alone" COULD work... but they didn't do that.

It doesn't affect the article as a whole, it is just something I wouldn't be able to slip without calling out.

It actually took me a while to kind of understand what is so odd about the checklist and I think I found it. It is written from women's perspective (or rather it is derived from a list of slights against women being turned into a list of what men have).

[Blargityblarg]

The being taught to be safer isn't a zero-sum game; it's an indication that women have to worry more when out at night; a reflection that they're more likely to be the targets of crime and/or douchebags.

[Neonivek]

The being taught to be safer isn't a zero-sum game; it's an indication that women have to worry more when out at night; a reflection that they're more likely to be the targets of crime and/or douchebags.

Then say "I am safer then women when I am out at night".

I am not going to reach for something when someone intentionally puts it out of reach to force me to bend to its own broken logic... because it is a trick to make you put in more information then is actually there.

The reason they put it like that is because "Don't go into a dark alley at night" is likely something everyone who read the article experienced. In fact a lot of this article is written that way, going for "connecting with its audience" more then making things clear.

Are Men safer at night? I don't know. In FACT I just looked it up and no one knows. For all I know men ARE more at risk at night.

The point isn't even "Who is at risk" the point was supposed to be that Women are taught to be more fearful of the world around them then men because of a perception that they are so targeted and helpless...

[Leafsnail]

The being taught to be safer isn't a zero-sum game; it's an indication that women have to worry more when out at night; a reflection that they're more likely to be the targets of crime and/or douchebags.

I don't think this is actually true, at least where I am.  Generally men are more likely to be attacked by strangers while women are more likely to be attacked by people they know.

[Neonivek]

The being taught to be safer isn't a zero-sum game; it's an indication that women have to worry more when out at night; a reflection that they're more likely to be the targets of crime and/or douchebags.

I don't think this is actually true, at least where I am.  Generally men are more likely to be attacked by strangers while women are more likely to be attacked by people they know.

Yes but it does work in favor of the article.

The perception that women are "in much danger" even at behest to actual statistics. Does prove its point.

[penguinofhonor]

Yeah, women are taught to be disproportionately fearful even when it doesn't make them that much safer.

[Neonivek]

Yeah, women are taught to be disproportionately fearful even when it doesn't make them that much safer.

Well, we don't know that either. It certainly doesn't make them safer proportionally to the fear.

I remember in my class when I said you actually had a VERY good chance to walk through a dark alley at night and be perfectly unharmed and the other kids (I was young) looked at me in disbelief because they all honestly believed that it was a death sentence.

[i2amroy]

While I agree with some of the things listed in the Male Privilege Checklist, there are a few points that I would specifically like to disagree with:

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

I would like to point out that while the masculinity of the males is not questioned, they are often heavily disapproved of. This can be seen with the much more common appearance of "deadbeat dad" being a reason for bad teens/problems in media today. Of the "parental disappearance" tropes in media, deadbeat dad is one of the most common, and if a show decides to touch on it is almost always demonized.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

This is a psychological difference more then a societal one. Many studies have shown that due to physiological differences boys are more outgoing and active then girls. This might be contributed to slightly by societal expectations, but the major difference is a physiological one (which means that if we truly wanted "equal" amounts of outgoingness and activity from boys and girls we would need to favor girls as being more active and outgoing in our stereotypes).

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

This is from an old study. After quite a bit of googling for a recent one I discovered that the current trend actually is leaning in favor of girls and how gender stereotyping is harming boy's performance in school much more then it is holding back girls.

22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.

This one is flat out wrong. As any insurance company will tell you, males are more likely to have accidents due to the simple virtue of being male. It's the reason why females pay less for car insurance. The only way you could get even close to this statement is if you take statistics that fail to account for the original difference such as analyzed on this page.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring.

This one might be true, but it's not caused by males, but by females. Men decided long ago to wear suits/tuxes and keep it the same. We don't get annoyed if somebody is wearing the same suit as us at a party. While the pressure for women to be attractive may have been created by males, the variety of ways that women make themselves attractive (leading to an increase in demand and an increase in cost) was completely devised by women. A prime example of this is the corset, which is regarded as one of the most harmful fashions out there, was invented by a woman.

On the note of tailoring women in general have a larger variety of body shapes then men do, this obviously leads to a difficulty in producing a "one-size-fits-all" clothing. Add into that the fact that most female clothing companies do not use a standardized measuring system while most male clothing companies do, as well as several female clothing companies performing vanity sizing and you arrive at the present situation.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

Once again a physiological difference, not a sociological one. Women are more predisposed to listening to others when they talk and to accepting others' views then men are due to the way that their brains function. This leads to a reduction in interruptions by women and an increase in interruptions by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

This isn't a privilege, it's a hidden insult.

[Max White]

Wow, ok reading over that list, that is a barrel of misandrist bullshit. Seriously, being white and male doesn't exempt you from any sort of accountability, regardless of what some people seem to think.

[Neonivek]

Wow, ok reading over that list, that is a barrel of misandrist bullshit. Seriously, being white and male doesn't exempt you from any sort of accountability, regardless of what some people seem to think.

Remember that the list isn't a list of "Male privileges" it is a list of female grievances written in the form of male privileges.

Some I don't know what they are talking about.

 

As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters

Now I could say this was 100% true since I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing then my sisters.

This of course is because I was so non-active and near pathologically shy as a child that I wasn't outgoing at all (and having a birthday in the summer as a young child where EVERYONE has "everyone in the class birthdays" means no one comes) and my sisters being outgoing on their own... that I was the only one who needed to be pushed in that direction.

In other words I was "encouraged to be more active and outgoing" because I was the child my parents considered anti-social and a loner.

Also as a side note: I HATE their attempts to "help their antisocial son" because they are both outgoing people... and most very outgoing people's first instinct when someone "just doesn't seem to fit in" is to pull them close. Which for me is suffocating.

[penguinofhonor]

This one might be true, but it's not caused by males, but by females. Men decided long ago to wear suits/tuxes and keep it the same. We don't get annoyed if somebody is wearing the same suit as us at a party.

Achievement unlocked: Unironically use sexist stereotype while critiquing a feminist argument.

While the pressure for women to be attractive may have been created by males, the variety of ways that women make themselves attractive (leading to an increase in demand and an increase in cost) was completely devised by women. A prime example of this is the corset, which is regarded as one of the most harmful fashions out there, was invented by a woman.

I invent a type of knife. You stab me with the knife. Oh dang, I invented it, guess it's my fault I got stabbed.

[Vector]

i2amroy, I think that perhaps you're not seeing the wide swathes of gray inbetween "deadbeat dad" and "primary caregiver."  Also, there's a difference between what insurance companies think and what ye average fellow on the street thinks (though you are obviously correct in your assessment).

I don't think it's insulting to say "I have the privilege to be unaware of my privilege," either.  I don't go through my average day thinking about how there are pretty much no people of color featured in books, movies, video games, and the like, or about how the clothing sold in the stores is usually sold in hues that look good with white skin.  I don't notice that "flesh-tone" stuff means "the color of white skin" or any of that.  Well, okay, now I do--but that's only because I had someone jump down my neck and do some Racism 101 stuff about four years ago (if you happen to be around, thanks).

Actually, here we go: I think a better way to say it is that men don't have to notice, whereas women do.  Does that seem less insulting?

[Max White]

I think a better way to say it is that men don't have to notice, whereas women do.  Does that seem less insulting?

Not really.
The idea behind it is that men are totally oblivious to any sort of social injustice and go on living this charmed life as if nothing is happening. Men do have to notice, because men are people and there is a certain expectation that, like all people, we pull our weight. The notion that we have some sort of special privilege to just shut out any sort of injustice and carry on with out insular little lives while everybody else unjustly struggles in the mud isn't really fair on anybodies behalf.

[Vector]

I was about to disagree with you, but then I suddenly remembered all the women I've heard go "haha, I'm not oppressed, you mangina!" on various MRA forums and realized that this isn't as one-sided as I thought it was.