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[palsch]

What if the person who supposedly raped her was equally inebriated and wasn't in any state to make judgements either?

That's where the 'reasonable belief' comes into play. They may believe that the other person consented, but if their belief was not reasonable (eg, due to inebriation) then it isn't a valid defence.

Personally I lean towards an enthusiastic consent model for sexual behaviour, where you treat anything but a clear green light as a red, as a model for more, better sex without risks. But that's just me and not the law.

I saw 8 out of about 3 dozen there having salary ranges. Also, salaries on the ones i saw were based of off qualifications, past experience etc.

You might want to re-count there. It's 12 of 20 on the first page, not counting the £6.40-90 one, and 19 on the second which are listed either as an explicit range, 'competitive' or unspecified. Usually a non-fixed salary will involved the candidate being invited to suggest their starting salary. It's a fairly common practice. This immediately puts women in the position of having to negotiate a raise.

When women do negotiate their opening salaries they are more likely to be hurt than benefit. From the discussion;

The results of Experiment 2 supported our hypothesis that women would incur a greater social cost from attempting to negotiate for higher compensation than would men (Hypothesis 1). Indeed, there was no significant decline in the evaluators’ willingness to work with a male candidate who attempted to negotiate (vs. not). Women, in contrast, faced a large penalty—the negative effect of the ask manipulation was more than 5.5 times greater for women than for men. Interestingly, whether the candidate asked simply (moderate ask) or assertively (strong ask) had no effect on the relatively larger social cost for women as compared to men.

Which is to say, it didn't matter if they were polite or pushy. Women who asked for higher salaries were judged more harshly and less likely to be hired than men who did the same thing.

I'm not claiming this is a concious bias, but it is a real and sexist one.

This extends further. There is this semi-famous paper that used identical CVs with a male or female name when applying to academic jobs. The male names had a substantially higher likelyhood of being hired than the female ones.


And LordBucket, you have a very odd view of gender relations and what makes a successful or happy life.

[Max White]

This is what I was thinking of when the phrase "deal with it" came up. x3

This is, in fact, an ideal example of the 'deal with it' mentality.

[LordBucket]

This extends further. There is this semi-famous paper that used identical CVs with a male or female name when applying to academic jobs. The male names had a substantially higher likelyhood of being hired than the female ones.

Meanwhile, watch both a man and a woman on the side of a road with a broken car and see who is more likely to have someone stop and help.

Meanwhile, watch both a man and a woman get divorced and compete for child custody and see who is more likely to get it.

Meanwhile, watch both a man and a women quit their job because they hated it and try to move back in with their parents and see which has an easier time of it.

Meanwhile, watch both a man and a woman beaten and raped, and see who gets more sympathy.

Meanwhile, watch both a man and a woman stand shyly in the corner at a party or a bar and see who's more likely to be approached for drinks or a dance.

Yes, there differences in how people treat each other based on gender. Salary is one where men come out ahead.

Grass is greener, people. Look at the whole picture. This thread was seriously started because a woman was complaining about how women are portrayed in games. As if that was an important thing.

[Leafsnail]

And LordBucket, you have a very odd view of gender relations and what makes a successful or happy life.

What a shocking development.

[palsch]

This thread was seriously started because a woman was complaining about how women are portrayed in games. As if that was an important thing.

For the gaming industry and gaming culture? Yes it is.

Is it OK if I use your post as a textbook example of derailing tactics? It's kinda beautiful.

[LordBucket]

This thread was seriously started because a woman was complaining about how women are portrayed in games. As if that was an important thing.

Is it OK if I use your post as a textbook example of derailing tactics? It's kinda beautiful.

...it's ironic that you would accuse me of derailing the thread while quoting me bringing the topic back to the subject of the thread title. We've been on a tangent for the past ten pages or so. Why are you only now making ad hominem attacks accusing me of derailing the thread when you could have made that particular ad hominem attack far more effectively ten pages ago?

[Ogdibus]

.

[Leafsnail]

But ultimately, a woman who is willing to...

1) Spend 3-4 hours working out every week
2) Wear a padded bra
3) Not get pregnant until married
4) Consent to sex

...can be extremely successful in life.

I didn't think you'd top the facepunching thing but you've managed it!

It's like this fantastic fusion of old-school "a woman's place is the home" sexism and new-school "I'm a nice guy why will no-one sleep with me" sexism.

[Zangi]

Re: Only two posts on 'Tropes vs Women in Video Games'
Now featuring.... Ultimate Debate of Ultimate Destiny: "Man versus Woman, who's life is harder?"

[Max White]

Cage match edition.

[DJ]

That's where the 'reasonable belief' comes into play. They may believe that the other person consented, but if their belief was not reasonable (eg, due to inebriation) then it isn't a valid defence.

Yeah, but if both are equally inebriated, who is the rapist, and who is the victim?

Personally I lean towards an enthusiastic consent model for sexual behaviour, where you treat anything but a clear green light as a red, as a model for more, better sex without risks. But that's just me and not the law.

That's a great way to never get laid. I've personally been dumped (well, 3 dates isn't exactly a relationship, but whatever) because I wasn't sexually aggressive enough. And I never got anywhere waiting for the woman to give a completely unambiguous green light.

[GlyphGryph]

Funny, that. I've never had a problem getting an unambiguous greenlight. Of course, I've also never been dumped for not being "aggressive" enough, either. (Other things, sure, but not that.)

I suspect there's more factors here relating to your relationships rather than it having anything to do with being a great way 'not to get laid'.

[DJ]

What, you just ask for sex without prior warm-up, and it works?

And I know it was precisely that because I asked.

[Vector]

Oh, hey, in case anyone was wondering about that question--would you rather stay home with the kids and be on call to do housework 24/7 or be a salaried man who comes home and, should he stop working his 40 hours a week, loses the submission of his wife and sexual access to her: I'd much rather be a man.

[DJ]

Frankly, I'd rather stay at home than be a corporate slave. But that's not really an option if you're a guy.