Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

And why was that?

Because it was put upon me that in order to be male I had to be a tough guy who wanted girls.

While I was someone who wanted to be gentle and didn't care about forming any sort of romance. I didn't care about boobies and wanted to distance myself from violence.

As well I have a lot of effeminant tendencies, was shy, and prefered few people to many.

[Putnam]

Where do you live that people take that so seriously? I've never seen that be a problem.

[Solifuge]

This (sexism) is pretty much dead in modern mainstream games.

I searched up some lists of the top mainstream games and got directed to these:
http://www.cpugamer.com/editorial/the-top-10-mainstream-pc-games-of-2011
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-23-the-most-popular-games-on-xbox-live-in-2012-were

Whether it be the heroic valkyrie cogs of Gears of War to the silent protagonist of Chell from Portal or simply the background characters of Magicka or Dead Space, Anita's video does not apply to or is downright subverted by modern mainstream games. Never mind it awakening the internet hate machine or it being about as useful as telling the Bioshock team they're racists for creating a game where you throw baseballs at a mixed race couple.

Wait, objectification and sexism are gone in modern games? Sure, if you ignore tons of major mainstream titles. For starters, here's a compilation of the cutscenes from Batman: Arkham Asylum, which shows how their female characters were represented. Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Talia al Ghul.

You also cite Portal as an example, though it came out over 5 years ago. A few games that came out since: Dead or Alive Xtreme 2, Bayonetta, and Duke Nukem Forever.

And upcoming games are no different. According to the devs, "You'll want to protect the new Laura Croft". Their upcoming Tomb Raider reboot will have the players "protecting" a more naive and vulnerable Laura Croft. Apparently this includes protecting her against rape attempts.

So no, I'm sorry, but you are completely and entirely wrong.

[Reelya]

Right, but you're still using this video as a base, and no, not everything in modern gaming is a utopia of non-sexism and sexist subversions ever. Duke Nukem 4ever came out in 2012 in case you forgot, and it veers into outright misogyny. Not to mention objectification doesn't stop when a women speaks, it's still very possible to have her treated as an object even if she has a speaking part. Halo 3 had Cortana to be saved. Regardless of whether or not it was a retelling of Orpheus, Cortana was essentially turned into an object to be saved. I can prolly drag up more examples, but the point I want to get to here is yes, it still happens, but might be more nuanced, and she hasn't talked about modern games yet because they build on retro games. We can't criticise her for not speaking about modern games in her first video if her second video is meant for that.

DNF is outright misogynistic, because it's a satire of that entire character archetype, a more extreme version of 1980's action hero bad-boy. The whole Duke Nukem is a deliberate reaction against everything politically correct. You might as well slam Mel Brooks for promoting Nazism in The Producers.

[chaoticag]

And why was that?

Because it was put upon me that in order to be male I had to be a tough guy who wanted girls.

While I was someone who wanted to be gentle and didn't care about forming any sort of romance. I didn't care about boobies and wanted to distance myself from violence.

As well I have a lot of effeminant tendencies, was shy, and prefered few people to many.

Ummm. This is compared to women receiving less pay on average then men, while they don't tend to get as far in their jobs as men do?

Look, society does put some pretty unfair stuff on men, but we're pretty damn privileged. The University I'm currently enrolled in let's male students leave campus "at their own caution" between classes, but women need special permission to do so.

Right, but you're still using this video as a base, and no, not everything in modern gaming is a utopia of non-sexism and sexist subversions ever. Duke Nukem 4ever came out in 2012 in case you forgot, and it veers into outright misogyny. Not to mention objectification doesn't stop when a women speaks, it's still very possible to have her treated as an object even if she has a speaking part. Halo 3 had Cortana to be saved. Regardless of whether or not it was a retelling of Orpheus, Cortana was essentially turned into an object to be saved. I can prolly drag up more examples, but the point I want to get to here is yes, it still happens, but might be more nuanced, and she hasn't talked about modern games yet because they build on retro games. We can't criticise her for not speaking about modern games in her first video if her second video is meant for that.

DNF is outright misogynistic, because it's a satire of that entire character archetype. That's like criticizing Spinal Tap for their outfits being too extreme.

This is what Neonvik calls a cake parody thing. I forget the technical term. It's not scathing misogyny as a bad thing, it just presents it and pasts parody over it, pretending that makes it okay.

[Reelya]

Duh, that's called Satire. It's not a new thing. :/

A common feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm—"in satire, irony is militant"—but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This "militant" irony or sarcasm often professes to approve of (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack.

Look, society does put some pretty unfair stuff on men, but we're pretty damn privileged. The University I'm currently enrolled in let's male students leave campus "at their own caution" between classes, but women need special permission to do so.

Wouldn't that be in response to safety crusades by campus feminist groups? You know they've been hyping up how every college boy is a rapist for years (not really supported by statistics - colleges are a LOT safer than many regular neighborhoods).

[chaoticag]

No, a satire is a parody of the non-literary world. Guilliver's Travels and the Colbert Report are satires. If you haven't noticed, they're pretty scathing of the material. Duke Nukem just displays misogyny and doesn't go further than that.

[Solifuge]

There's a distinct difference between using Satire as a device to get your point across, and hiding behind Satire to say and show regressive BS for cheep entertainment.

Also, I would like to point you to my prior post.

[Neonivek]

Ummm. This is compared to women receiving less pay on average then men, while they don't tend to get as far in their jobs as men do?

Look, society does put some pretty unfair stuff on men, but we're pretty damn privileged. The University I'm currently enrolled in let's male students leave campus "at their own caution" between classes, but women need special permission to do so.

He asked me if I felt put down and I answered.

My point was that sexism towards men is real and serious. I won't argue it is to the same extent as towards women, because it isn't, but to take a "doesn't deserve talking about" attitude towards it is what I am against.

In otherwords my only points are that Sexism towards men is
1) Real
and
2) Serious

And no amount of Male CEOs changes that. Especially since one thing I said earlier is that sexism towards males dirrectly affects women. Abuse towards women has a dirrect link to the way we enforce gender roles upon men.

There's a distinct difference between using Satire as a device to get your point across, and hiding behind Satire to say and show regressive BS for cheep entertainment.

Also, I would like to point you to my prior post.

Yep the second is what I call "Parody Cake" or "Satire Cake".

"Nope, I am not being offensive see it is a parody so I am making fun of the steriotypes"

It is having your satire while at the same time doing exactly what you are satirising anyhow.

[Reelya]

And no amount of Male CEOs changes that. Especially since one thing I said earlier is that sexism towards males dirrectly affects women. Abuse towards women has a dirrect link to the way we enforce gender roles upon men.

Damn straight. More males commit suicide that females. Try telling those guys they had it good because someone else was a CEO.

[Glowcat]

And no amount of Male CEOs changes that. Especially since one thing I said earlier is that sexism towards males dirrectly affects women. Abuse towards women has a dirrect link to the way we enforce gender roles upon men.

Damn straight. More males commit suicide that females. Try telling those guys they had it good because someone else was a CEO.

...More men succeed at suicide. Because they're more likely to have access to guns. Women still attempt suicide more often.

[penguinofhonor]

Oh, if DNF is a prime example of a parody cake then that whole category makes perfect sense. I've seen that attitude everywhere.

"Yeah, we made some rape jokes, but not cause we think rape is funny, it's because we think people who think like that are funny."

[Ogdibus]

.

[Putnam]

Parody cake? I like that term a lot and will now use it.

"I'm racist and sexist but not really HAHA like and subscribe"

--every popular youtube personality

[Reelya]

And no amount of Male CEOs changes that. Especially since one thing I said earlier is that sexism towards males dirrectly affects women. Abuse towards women has a dirrect link to the way we enforce gender roles upon men.

Damn straight. More males commit suicide that females. Try telling those guys they had it good because someone else was a CEO.

...More men succeed at suicide. Because they're more likely to have access to guns. Women still attempt suicide more often.

That's not a legitimate explanation, since the suicide rate is much higher for males even in cultures where gun ownership is banned.

Suicide was the 8th leading cause of death for males and the 19th leading cause of death for females in 2000.1 More than four times as many men as women die by suicide,1 although women report attempting suicide during their lifetime about three times as often as men.

You do know the difference between reporting something and actually doing it, right? Men are less likely to report a pile of stuff, or go to the doctor when they're sick, etc.

It’s believed that hundreds of male suicides could be prevented in the UK if men didn’t feel ashamed to ask for help when they desperately need it.

Since young men are killing themselves rather than asking for help, it's not unlikely that this same gender seriously under-reports suicide attempts.