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[Max White]

Just as making a compilation of 'damsel in distress' examples is pretty much a meaningless exercise, making a list of female protagonists is equally pointless.
The fact of the matter still remains that publishers don't want female protagonists, and that is a problem.

[Reelya]

Not to nitpick, but that article states that "some" publishers didn't like it, but the game itself did get published with the female protagonist. The core question is whether those games have sales potential. If so, then it'll be a big seller and the "stuck in the mud" publishers will lose out, giving those more adventurous ones a leg up - thus improving their market share and making them more likely to publish other such games in the future.

So, female protagonist games are continuing to be made, and it's up to people to vote with their wallets now.

[Max White]

So the industry isn't 100% corrupt to the point of bursting. I never meant to imply it was and am sorry if I gave that impression. There are good games, good developers and good publishers.
But the fact that some publishers would take such a stance is a problem.

[LordBucket]

I guess my question is why is this even an issue at all?

There are more female nurses than male nurses. Shall we angry over this and demand more male nurses? At my local mall there are more women's clothing stores than men's clothing stores. Shall we be angry about this and seek to have more men's clothing stores? More women are accepted to college than men. Shall we impose male recruitment requirements to even it out?

Why is equal representation a desirable result?

Why is it perceived as a "problem to be corrected" if the gaming industry caters more to men than women?

[Reelya]

At the end of the day, if both male and female protagonist games are presented, the consumers will make the decision. Those publishers could just be mirroring attitudes of the public. And if, as has been noted, females make 50% of the purchasing decisions for games, how can it be male gamer's fault if games with female protagonists aren't being bought? They ARE actually being made, so you know, female gamers, go out and make them best-sellers!

I also have a slight issue with the idea that everything guys tend to like has to be made "gender neutral". e.g. for sake of argument - Rambo movies. Rambo fans tend to be male, so it's sexist to have them. Therefore Rambo shouldn't exist and we should replace it with a gender-neutral version liked equally by males and females. But why not just make a totally different movie then, and let Rambo exist on it's own. Mere existence of anything females dislike shouldn't be sexist in itself. And what about games, movies etc, predominantly liked by females - should these be forced to have pro-male features added until they're equally liked by males and females, so that they are not deemed sexist?

It seems to me in forcing everything to be gender-neutral we're encompassing a world of everything being colored beige.

@LordBucket you ninja'd me with a very similar sentiment. The answer is that anything with more male than female fans is automatically sexist.

[Max White]

Well yea, that is very true. I have stated before that I don't really see a problem with letting people have their fun.
Honestly, if somebody wants to make 'Busty Girls in Catsuits with Guns: Jiggle edition' I say go for it! Enjoy! Heck make team ninja blush with embarrassment if you can!
But if somebody is making 'Female Protagonist with Character Depth: The Game' and is having trouble finding support just because of a female protagonist, that is an issue.

Nobody should be trying to take away any sort of games, or ban any story line, or banish any character type, of any sort. Be it shallow cheerleader in miniskirt or single mom trying to save the kids from demons of Hades.

Actually Single Mom trying to save the Kids from Hades sounds pretty interesting...

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just as making a compilation of 'damsel in distress' examples is pretty much a meaningless exercise, making a list of female protagonists is equally pointless.
The fact of the matter still remains that publishers don't want female protagonists, and that is a problem.

Publishers are not game developers, are dying and rightly so.

The fact is that ugly men can get good roles and women who are not conventionally beautiful cannot.  Women older than 30 basically don't get roles written for them.  You can be the hot piece of ass, the mommy, or the old lady.  That's just what your primary role is going to be, because your value is seen through the lens of your sexuality--above all other things.  This is not right.

Right. Because we have seen anyone on the big screen who wasn't pure musculature and grizzled beard.
Or any female leads who wasn't the ass, the mum or the old lady.

...

Mind you she was a TERRIBLE host anyway because she treated the Camera like it was some sort of photoshoot (She kept posing for the camera... it was weird) but honestly if she were a man I doubt anyone would make that comment.

This is fucking annoying whoever does it. Men by and large don't do it, and when they do it inspires beautiful oceans of rage. Seriously. It's the same with e-begging.

That guy would still be a terrible TERRIBLE host who keeps posing to the camera like he was a model... but no one would doubt his cred.

"Yes that's a shit host but he has penis!" When ones' actions are inciting rage perhaps they should look beyond their skin?

It is why the stereotype of the "Gamer Girl" was created (specifically the Female Gamer who feels the need to point attention to the fact that she is the woman) and is utterly annoying. Heck one episode of CSI, I think it was CSI, where one of the bad guys was a girl who was killing people so that she "could be one of the guys" and I could only groan.
I know I live in a relative bubble with a lot of really progressive people... but the way I feel there is no need for a female to EVER need to 'prove women can be good at videogames too'. Is it really that bad a few steps outside my neighborhood?

It seems to be quite a modern thing. You know how the gay pride movement turned into "meh, just treat us all as equals mmkay?" I suppose eventually this'll turn into just that, on a more trivial scale.

and YET whenever a woman who isn't relatively unattractive shows interest in videogames it is "Ohh they don't play videogames". DANG IT WORLD!

I have never seen this before. Ever. It's a plus to have a hobby you can share, not something you force on others. Even the most unholiest of neckbeards know this. What you describe is being That Guy.

Actually Single Mom trying to save the Kids from Hades sounds pretty interesting...

Hades isn't a bad guy ;-;

[Zangi]

Actually Single Mom trying to save the Kids from Hades sounds pretty interesting...

Only place it would get published is Japan...  or Indie.

[Max White]

Hades isn't a bad guy ;-;

Well I was thinking of Hades as in the place but now that you mention it...
In 'SMTtStKfH:TG' not only is Hades an evil guy, but a evil guy with horns! Muhahahahaha! All the emotional attachment you have to the mythology is meaningless to me! Helmets of invisibility nothing!

Only place it would get published is Japan...  or Indie.

Yea I know, that is the problem... And in Japan it is still likely to be steered towards a male audience somehow.

[penguinofhonor]

The answer is that anything with more male than female fans is automatically sexist.

I really think bit this speaks for itself.

[Descan]

The main problem with what Lord Bucket said is that he's treating it like, as he said, a female audience is a hypothetical audience. When, as has been stated, it's not? 47-50% of gamers are female, so the audience is split, but the actual games are not.

[DJ]

What I'd really like right now is a rant on how Alpha Centauri objectifies Sister Miriam.

[Reelya]

The main problem with what Lord Bucket said is that he's treating it like, as he said, a female audience is a hypothetical audience. When, as has been stated, it's not? 47-50% of gamers are female, so the audience is split, but the actual games are not.

If they were clamoring for those particular games, sales should reflect that. They have enough purchasing power already. One question should now be why games with female protagonists aren't selling so well, when so many women are buying games already.

[Leafsnail]

As for the prevalence of female characters in games...are we seriously even bothering with that issue? Personally the vast majority of all games I play allow the player to choose the gender of our character. I'm playing Eve right now and I have a female character. What's the problem? And it's not like this anything new. Even in the 80s and 90s we had Chun Li, Samus Aran, Princess Peach, Alis Landale...there's never been any shortage of female protagonists in games.

The main question I'm interested in is whether you have a greater female potential to be punched in the face when you play those characters.

[DJ]

Women tend more towards management than action games from what I've observed, and you don't really have a protagonist in Simcity or Transport Tycoon Deluxe.