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[Neonivek]

it's arguable whether such a movie could fully represent gender equality with only two characters

You probably could never do that with a cast of hundreds... and heck you aren't trying to represent genders anyhow.

The typical male action movie character isn't really a representative of males.

Though people always say that they are a "male power fantasy" we rarely hear about what the "female power fantasy" is.

It's rarely catered to, unfortunately. Take the latest summer blockbuster and switch all the genders and you'll be somewhere in the ballpark, but not exactly.

You could pretty them up a little. Part of the female power fantasy is also being beautiful.

When I have to give the archtypical female power fantasy there are a few sources I think of... but in terms of videogames I go with Classical Laura Croft

I think one of the reasons the female power fantasy is also rarely touched upon is also because quite a few people seem to think the female power fantasy is more "sophisticated" then the male one. So anytime you see a woman who "is a high end business woman who can support herself" they probably are thinking that is the female power fantasy.

It is why some people find writing for women or about women or female characters difficult... because they get in their mind that they are these alien beings instead of just human beings.

[penguinofhonor]

I think that writers really need to stop cramming that shit into everything. If I want romance I'll play a dating sim, not a dragon-slaying sim.

I think you're pretty obviously in the minority, since shoving romance into things is basically free popularity. People really empathize with love stories and always have. This also applies to LGBT people.

[Neonivek]

Yeah unfortunately a lot of people like forced, badly written, character-undriven romance forced into everything. Even if it goes against what the game is going for.

Think of it like women in bikinis. You can improve the popularity of anything by including them. Even if it was a game is a game about taking care of babies. Does it improve the game? usually the opposite.

Trust me there is a reason why people compare Romantic Comedies to Porno.

[penguinofhonor]

Yeah, bad writers shove love into things badly. But good writers also devote a disproportionately large amount of their writing to love. Shakespeare, for example.

The abundance of bad romance plots is just Sturgeon's Law.

[DJ]

Shakespeare didn't shove in romantic subplots, romance was a cornerstone of his main plot. You can't really take it out of Romeo & Juliet or Othello without wrecking the whole story.

[Phmcw]

Even cheesy romantic subplot must be done right. Look at the witcher :you cannot do more cheesy, but it add flavor. In skyrim, on the other hand, it add, well, nothing?

[Putnam]

Even cheesy romantic subplot must be done right. Look at the witcher :you cannot do more cheesy, but it add flavor. In skyrim, on the other hand, it add, well, nothing?

I made you a food, my love. I can sell stuff for you, my love.

At the very least, Skyrim had equality in having a spouse be nothing more than a thing what gives you stuff.

[penguinofhonor]

Shakespeare didn't shove in romantic subplots, romance was a cornerstone of his main plot. You can't really take it out of Romeo & Juliet or Othello without wrecking the whole story.

Yeah, so write romance into your games well and make it relevant to the plot. Don't remove romance from games because it's supposedly not relevant when it's one of the most effective ways to get people to relate to your story.

[DJ]

Or, you know, leave it out if it's not your forte as a writer rather than half-ass it because it's a thing that you're supposed to do.

[penguinofhonor]

Or get better at it?

[Rolepgeek]

Romance is not necessary, is the thing. When every female character always ends up being a love interest(or a potential love interest, for the games with that sort of thing)? It gets tiring.

It doesn't need to be added into everything. It doesn't need to be removed, but it simply isn't needed. I don't want to see romance plots in every single game I play with a storyline. Yes, there might be romance involved at some point, but the main character doesn't need to have a romantic ordeal, and it's actually pretty damn easy to write a story without making romance a centerpiece. Plenty of books do it. Many of them even do it well. Some of them give in to the pressure of adding it, but not all.

Do I think it shouldn't be present anywhere? No. Do I think it should be present everywhere? Also no. And it seems more like the latter than the former.

[penguinofhonor]

Romance is not necessary, is the thing. When every female character always ends up being a love interest(or a potential love interest, for the games with that sort of thing)? It gets tiring.

It doesn't need to be added into everything. It doesn't need to be removed, but it simply isn't needed. I don't want to see romance plots in every single game I play with a storyline. Yes, there might be romance involved at some point, but the main character doesn't need to have a romantic ordeal, and it's actually pretty damn easy to write a story without making romance a centerpiece. Plenty of books do it. Many of them even do it well. Some of them give in to the pressure of adding it, but not all.

Do I think it shouldn't be present anywhere? No. Do I think it should be present everywhere? Also no. And it seems more like the latter than the former.

It shouldn't be everywhere, but I never said that.

It will be in a lot of places though. That's pretty much guaranteed. There is a tremendous demand for it. People have demonstrated that they're willing to go to crappy romances for their romance fix, so shunning romance with the same old "I'm tired of romance plots" stuff is just going to result in more crappy romances. I think embracing it and encouraging it to be done well will result in good romances that will take players from the bad ones.

[DJ]

A lot of people want fanservice chainmail bikinis too, but according to this thread that should be cut back on, so why apply a different standard to crappy romance?

[penguinofhonor]

Because crappy romances aren't the same thing? They're just bad/mediocre writing. Are you deliberately missing every point you can or what?

[DJ]

They kind of are the same thing, though, as they both objectify the characters. It's why Bechdel's Test is a thing.