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[palsch]

As a funny aside, Steam is having a vote between two sets of games as part of the silly summer sale nonsense.  "Pixel Graphics - Hardcore' vs "Story Rich - Female Protagonist"
....

Amusingly the current community choice is all female protagonists (Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, They Bleed Pixels and Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams). Can't remember what the category was called though.

Probably should have kept track of everything coming through the daily sales to do a better survey of male/female characters in popular games. Might be a project if I find a few hours when I'm not playing one of the new games I bought. Pretty sure there will be a list somewhere.

[Rolepgeek]

Yeah, that, and some other passage that sounded very trollish like "I never player Mass Effect, but it must be sexist because Sheppard is a male name" (Yeah, I am gorssly simplifying your post, I agree with you actually, it's just the argument is... trollish).

There are better examples, and I'm sure I could think of some if I played more RPGs(as in, if I had the money to...), but the point about the trailers still stands, at least.

I kinda figured Sheppard was a nickname, but it still seemed like a guy's nickname.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, that, and some other passage that sounded very trollish like "I never player Mass Effect, but it must be sexist because Sheppard is a male name" (Yeah, I am gorssly simplifying your post, I agree with you actually, it's just the argument is... trollish).

There are better examples, and I'm sure I could think of some if I played more RPGs(as in, if I had the money to...), but the point about the trailers still stands, at least.

I kinda figured Sheppard was a nickname, but it still seemed like a guy's nickname.

It's not a nickname, it's the character's last name.

[Neonivek]

I just don't like the precedent of just defaulting to one gender ("When in doubt, male") it is why I go out of my way not to even recognize it as legitimate.

Mass Effect is a better example of a game with a male or female protagonist who is advertised as overwhelmingly male in spite of being capable of being either.

As well I know in most games when they need to come up with the protagonists true form they tend to be male as well (or in rare cased of story blasphemy... Both).

[Rolepgeek]

Yes, thank you, I know that now. I was saying before I was informed of what it was, that's what I thought it was. Somebody already said it was their last name. Can we move on from re-iterating points please?

>.> Gaaaaarrrfffflbrghl.

Neonivek, refusing to acknowledge the problem doesn't make it go away. <.< By refusing to recognize that games do that, you are not helping the issue.

[penguinofhonor]

I think he means he doesn't recognize male as the default, not that he doesn't recognize the problem.

[Gatleos]

I think the ultimate solution is to not acknowledge the Damsel in Distress trope at all. Drawing attention to the subversion of that trope just makes it seem like the female protagonist is a novelty.

I don't know, would you say that the problem is that the trope exists at all, or that it's only that kind of representation that women tend to get in games? Because I would say the latter, and as far as I've picked up that's what other people have a problem with as well.

Like others have said, it's definitely not the only representation they get; I wasn't implying that at all. I have no problem with the trope, and even individual examples aren't a bad thing. It's just that it's so common. When I said I'd rather ignore it, I meant that if I were writing a story I'd see it as pandering to treat a female protagonist that isn't a Damsel in Distress as a novelty. It just feels insulting to me.

The Damsel in Distress is also only a very small part of the actual problem. I'd consider the marginalization through other means, primarily sexual, to be more representative. All I want is to play as a female character that feels like a person. One that's there for me to relate to or examine as a character, not to lust after.

Two notes:

• The Momodora series not only has female protagonists, but an all-female cast. No mention of this is made in-game, they just all happen to be female. The third one has been greenlit on steam, and they're all good. Play them now.
• The trope you're looking for is Distressed Dude (or Dude in Distress). Lots of good examples on that page.

[sal880612m]

I have never played Mass Effect but I assumed Sheppard was a last name. Partly because it makes little sense to me as a first name, partly because what little I do know implies the character is military (so rank and last name) and partly because of Stargate Atlantis.

On a new term for Damsel in Distress, I think a large part of the reason it rolls off the tongue so easily is the alliteration so any term that starts with a D should work roughly as well. I'm partial to Dumbass or Dumbfuck because Damsels, male or female tend to be described very well by either of those terms as far as I am concerned. In this context I am taking the view that being rescued is the sole purpose and contribution of the character, not just having a singular moment of Damsel-ry.

I don't think it will ever change though, there is a point where things enter into a realm of common usage and never entirely go away even if the meaning changes. I believe I read somewhere that at one point in history bringing home the bacon was far more literal then the meaning it currently takes.

[Rolan7]

Amusingly the current community choice is all female protagonists (Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, They Bleed Pixels and Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams). Can't remember what the category was called though.

Haha, nice catch!  Not just gender-neutral, gender-choice, or tits for the sake of tits either.  All four of those games feature tasteful female protagonists, that's pretty ironic.

Probably should have kept track of everything coming through the daily sales to do a better survey of male/female characters in popular games. Might be a project if I find a few hours when I'm not playing one of the new games I bought. Pretty sure there will be a list somewhere.

For Steam, at least, it appears 174 games have received enough "female protagonist" tag-votes to be listed here:
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Female%20Protagonist/

That apparently includes at least some bi-gender games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, though not all (Fallout 3 is missing it, for example).

But yeah, 174 games out of the Steam library were considered Female-Protagonist enough to earn a tag.  I'm not sure what to compare that to, exactly.  There are thousands of games on Steam - a few of my friends have the 500+ badge - so I think this value, while proving nothing, strongly supports what many of us see as obvious:

Games featuring female protagonists are uncommon.  I'd confidently estimate that <10% of games that make it to Steam feature only female protagonists.  I don't have a good estimate for how many games allow gender to be chosen, but many of those are included in the 174 figure.  Even if 50% of games offer female protagonist options, that's still a 10% to 40% split between female-only and male-only games.

And that's ignoring whether the female protagonist is an exaggerated pin-up meant to attract immature male gamers.  The 174 figure includes such "protagonists".

So with respect, Neonivek, I must dispute your claim (;  It seems clear that the majority of games feature male protagonists only.

Not that we can fix sexism by making more games with DD half-naked bimbo heroes.  The problem isn't that games don't feature females.  It's the number of females in interactive media who are insulting caricatures, insulting both real women and the male gamers to which they're marketed.  We need more healthy female role models in gaming, and also more power fantasies for female gamers to play as.  We *also*, separately, need to avoid systematically portraying women as more helpless than men.

That said, background NPCs are naturally weak and without agency.  I was not impressed with this latest video, as it lengthily claimed female background NPCs were being singled out for exploitation in sandbox games.  Background NPCs in sandbox games all exist to be toyed with, male or female.

And GTA portrays a gritty, criminal fantasy world.  It would be weird for these murderers and drug pushers to mysteriously shun prostitution... they're *bad*.  Their immorality is obvious, and the point.  Bad things happen to these bad people, because they're bad.  GTA isn't parody cake, it's a morality play.

Now the Saints Rows series, that's parody cake.

[Putnam]

Amusingly the current community choice is all female protagonists (Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, They Bleed Pixels and Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams). Can't remember what the category was called though.

Haha, nice catch!  Not just gender-neutral, gender-choice, or tits for the sake of tits either.  All four of those games feature tasteful female protagonists, that's pretty ironic.

Half of the games there are gender-choice.

[Graknorke]

Amusingly the current community choice is all female protagonists (Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, They Bleed Pixels and Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams). Can't remember what the category was called though.

Haha, nice catch!  Not just gender-neutral, gender-choice, or tits for the sake of tits either.  All four of those games feature tasteful female protagonists, that's pretty ironic.

Half of the games there are gender-choice.

Uh, I find that hard to believe.
Because Lara Croft and Faith are the protagonists of their respective games, and Giana Sisters has "sisters" in the title. Which would lead me to suspect that the protagonists are multiple women who are sisters.

[Neonivek]

I should state that some of those "Both genders" are not a choice so much as the game having more then one protagonist.

Even if 50% of games offer female protagonist options, that's still a 10% to 40% split between female-only and male-only games.

Sounds odd... but I do mean this sincerely... but... What is the problem?

What is the issue in having over 50% of games have a female protagonist even if she isn't necessarily the ONLY protagonist in the game.

In fact in many respects it is a nice compromise if one is to use the "market" argument.

[penguinofhonor]

And GTA portrays a gritty, criminal fantasy world.  It would be weird for these murderers and drug pushers to mysteriously shun prostitution... they're *bad*.  Their immorality is obvious, and the point.  Bad things happen to these bad people, because they're bad.  GTA isn't parody cake, it's a morality play.

GTA is not a documentary. It does not encompass the entirety of bad things that murderers and drug pushers do. None of the other exclusions would be interpreted as "mysteriously shunning" something.

Also I feel like if you're depicting something sexist then you need a better reason than "to show a bad thing" or "to show someone is a bad person" because there are countless alternatives that don't involve sexism.

[Gatleos]

And GTA portrays a gritty, criminal fantasy world.  It would be weird for these murderers and drug pushers to mysteriously shun prostitution... they're *bad*.  Their immorality is obvious, and the point.  Bad things happen to these bad people, because they're bad.  GTA isn't parody cake, it's a morality play.

Now the Saints Rows series, that's parody cake.

GTA is a morality play that backpedals into claims of parody whenever anyone is offended by it, and attempts to be taken seriously otherwise. In other words, parody cake.

Saints Row doesn't bullshit around with you. It's just plain parody.

[Dutchling]

So, because sexism is an issue in both the real world and (because of that) in video games, it is something to be avoided even when portrayed as something that is bad?