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[Max White]

If she changed her definition, perhaps she should have included it somewhere?

[GlyphGryph]

What is it that you think she is actually criticizing here. anyway?

[Neonivek]

If she changed her definition, perhaps she should have included it somewhere?

Her earlier videos didn't have a real definition.

It was one of the reasons why they were rather weak.

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Ok watching the third, hearing how she actually does good things here... makes me hopeful!

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First thought: Games where women save the day are extremely rare? Well I guess not everyone has my esoteric knowledge... I'll let it pass. It is like expecting a detective to know about four dimensional calculus.

[Max White]

What is it that you think she is actually criticizing here. anyway?

I think she is against a woman ever being anything less than a strong character with a wheel burrow full of agency, even though it is ok for men to be the prize.

Her earlier videos didn't have a real definition.

A trope is a common pattern in a story or a recognizable attribute in a character that conveys
information to the audience. A trope becomes a cliche when it’s overused. Sadly, some of these tropes often perpetuate offensive stereotypes.

[GlyphGryph]

What is it that you think she is actually criticizing here. anyway?

I think she is against a woman ever being anything less than a strong character with a wheel burrow full of agency, even though it is ok for men to be the prize.

Wow, so, remember how arguing dishonestly is a dick move? This, right here: "dick move". You've manage to evade the question, build a strawman, and attack it - but all it's accomplished is making you look a bit silly... is it that you really haven't bothered to actually try and understand what she's criticizing, but you've just decided to fight against it? Because she's not exactly made it a secret.

What is she criticizing? Come on, demonstrate some basic understanding of the thing you are trying to beat down.

But hey, at least you know how to copy paste a definition! You should probably try reading it. It hold's the secret (not really secret) answer to the question.

[alexandertnt]

I think she is against a woman ever being anything less than a strong character with a wheel burrow full of agency, even though it is ok for men to be the prize.

She has on several occasions stated that the issue is the enforcement of stereotypes. Se has stated that men being "the prize" does not reinforce a harmful stereotype. So the issue is the enforcement of a harmful stereotype, not specifically women in general being less than strong characters.

[Neonivek]

Ok, YES Anita actually does seem to now be making good arguments.

Which is freeky...

Yet I am not at the point where she talks about their expectations.

[GlyphGryph]

She even at the end shows an example of what she would like to see happen - a proper subversion! Man you'll be so happy with this video I'm telling you (also, disappointed, because you end up disappointed with everything, but y'are who y'are. )

Anyways, I'm off to bed.

[Rolan7]

Ok, YES Anita actually does seem to now be making good arguments.

Which is freeky...

Yet I am not at the point where she talks about their expectations.

It's ironic because she started making a point I disagree with, haha: That parody cakes are bad and reinforce stereotypes.
I look forward to civilly arguing this point with you, as I think you agree with her!  What a reversal 

[Max White]

What is she criticizing? Come on, demonstrate some basic understanding of the thing you are trying to beat down.

God I think strawman has just become to goto for 'I don't agree with what you say so I'll make some shit up!'

You want me go over all this again? Ok then...
She is criticizing the female damsel in the HD spelunky, due to the fact that
1. She is interchangabe with a dog

Setting aside the fact that – if a female character is easily interchangeable with a dog then its probably a pretty good indication that something is wrong

Now the male character is also just as interchangeable, but if a female character can be swapped for a dog there is a problem. Because you know, it is offensive for women, but not for men because penis.

2. For some reason the female is a negative stereotype, but the male isn't!

The two may appear the same, but they don’t mean the same thing in our culture.  This [damsel] is still a problem while this [dude] is not. Again because one reinforces pre-existing stereotypes about women, while the other does not re-enforce any pre-existing stereotypes about men.

Yea that makes sense if you manage to ignore all the pre-existing stereotypes about men that the male damsel conforms to. All you need to do is go stereo blind! There are no male stereotypes! Especially not any that this silly hunk confirms to!


Do you really not see how her attacking the female damsel, but saying the male is acceptable, is a double standard?

[Vector]

Because the male stereotype isn't that he has to get rescued.  That's what's under discussion.  That would be why she's discussing that particular stereotype.

[majikero]

At the rate she's going, I fully expect her to say something about Harvest Moon. I don't know what exactly, maybe about the man working the fields and the woman staying in the kitchen and being useless.

Or god forbid, she finds out about Princess Maker.

[Neonivek]

Ok, YES Anita actually does seem to now be making good arguments.

Which is freeky...

Yet I am not at the point where she talks about their expectations.

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No Anita... having a female character who is interchangeable isn't a problem... given that she has no real context within the game and is simply a story element... I mean I agree with the point you are trying to make, just not that EXACT point.

Also Anita, no the male in this case does progress harmful male stereotypes in males. It is no where close to the extent that it applies to women (dear goodness games stop!) but this isn't the equality Olympics... You can say that it isn't "as harmful".

Anita... I don't want to say it... but the gender swap mods tend to be made for males >_<

Also Hotline Miami isn't Damsel exactly...

Also I am starting to think the Parodies are not parodies. Princess What's her name was a parody.

OK Anita... Ghost Trick has EVERYONE as a damsel.

WHAT!?! You didn't talk about Elaine? HOW COULD YOU ANITA!?! You betrayed me!

DEAR GOODNESS ANITA!!! Why is it that you can ONLY subvert your own trope by turning the Damsel into a stereotypical hero archtype? That isn't subverting it at all, that is just making the damsel not a damsel at all.

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Yeah... This is probably her best video. The only problem I can find are mostly nitpicks and not real hard objections. I don't agree with everything she says but frankly I never watched these videos to see my opinion thrown back at me.

I am only 12 minutes in and honestly... if her first two videos were like this. I'd probably would have book marked them.

Nevermind same major disagreement.

Look Anita every single time you bring up the subversion to the trope you always dress up the damsel in heroes clothing.

She isn't a Subversion... She just isn't the damsel.

You want to know of a game that subverts this trope Anita? Kings Quest 7 where you play Queen Valanece from the second game, the damsel in distress, and you actually use your skills and wit to save the day. She doesn't pick up a sword and armor and becomes the Knight in White armor, she doesn't need to dress in male's clothing to be powerful. She was always powerful. (She does cry a lot...)

Heck Kings Quest 3 is a joke on the Princess formula with Princess Rosella who goes on an adventure to save her father and restore the Kingdom. She was the "Butt kicking princess", She was a great hero in her own way and didn't need to pick up armor to do so (mind you... she is a master bowmen)

Likewise it is why I dislike it when you talk about Zelda. Zelda isn't a weak character, she is a very strong character (and in fact my favorite character from the series). She is wisdom. While I could easily enjoy a game where she wears armor, carries a sword, and kills people... It isn't the requirement to make her the hero.

Not every Hero needs to fight with the sword. AHHH!

Then again I play a lot of point and clicks where the main weapon of the hero are their wits and intelligence. I guess since most games "Wit and intelligence" doesn't factor as anything, it doesn't count.

I mean if the majority of the games require the hero to use the sword and board... I guess that is the measure of a female protagonist. Yet I kind of wish it wasn't.

So I guess I cannot hold it against her. A woman in a dress cannot be the hero apparently and being a woman will just always be a weakness that needs to be shed in Anita land. Which is what will be the official name for modern videogame woman standards: Anita Land. No I am not being satirical I am just disappointed that frankly she is probably right and that a female protagonist shouldn't be female.

[Max White]

At the rate she's going, I fully expect her to say something about Harvest Moon. I don't know what exactly, maybe about the man working the fields and the woman staying in the kitchen and being useless.

I'm still waiting for her to bring up Tetris, and how the phallic long block is unfairly the most valued. 

So I guess I cannot hold it against her. A woman in a dress cannot be the hero apparently and being a woman will just always be a weakness that needs to be shed in Anita land. Which is what will be the official name for modern videogame woman standards: Anita Land. No I am not being satirical I am just disappointed that frankly she is probably right and that a female protagonist shouldn't be female.

The Cat Lady.

[Neonivek]

What about the Cat lady?

Catwoman? No she wouldn't be a proper subversion for Anita... She needs to steal Batman's clothing first.

That is the only way Catwoman can be a proper hero. Not by being her own person with skills and attributes, but by taking on the skills and attributes of the male protagonist. That is the only way.