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[Max White]

Seriously, you have institutionalized discrimination going on and your biggest worry is hurting the feeling of the group that gets preferential treatment?

Not the single biggest worry, but it is a worry, and therefor deserves consideration.
When we play the "Who has it worst" game everybody looses, because everybody spends all eternity showing off how sad their story is instead of trying to improve it.

[Glowcat]

Specifically it's the section of the BCS on domestic violence I'm referring too, goddamit. At least give me some credit. This is like, the 4th time i've linked it or something:

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

and here's another source citing the low conviction rate for domestic violence:

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2009/09/the_number_of_d

Ok, same country, same time-period. Similar reporting rate, vast gulf in convictions. The second link has a bit of spin on it, but by being aware of the first link, you can get a bigger picture.

NOW, is that enough for you to accept that there's data showing that women are less likely to be convicted?

Well I've found this 2011-2012 study which puts the amount of domestic abuse in the UK at ~2 men : 3 women, but it defines domestic abuse as:

Domestic abuse includes non-physical abuse, threats, force, sexual assault or stalking carried
out by a current or former partner or other family member. ‘Domestic abuse’ is not directly
comparable to the main CSEW ‘domestic violence’ category

I've found this and this from the 2010-2011 British Crime Survey and for American crimes I've found this from the National Institute of Justice. And here's another US based data collection that has a bunch of information.

Overall it seems that while plenty of men report non-violent abuse, women are far more likely to be subjected to sexual assaults at about at a far greater rate. The conviction rates seem tied to that and the fact female perpetrators are mostly guilty of verbal abuse instead of something that can be convicted for.

[Vector]

are we seriously doing the discrimination olympics again

Yup.

Yeah, them poor women getting preferential treatment in domestic violence cases, it's so unfair to them.

Funny...

"Those poor men having their children taken away because women are seen to have one and only one purpose as breeding vats, making men unsuitable!  Poor them."

It seems that now the shoe is on the other foot.

[Neonivek]

Seriously, you have institutionalized discrimination going on and your biggest worry is hurting the feeling of the group that gets preferential treatment?

Not the single biggest worry, but it is a worry, and therefor deserves consideration.
When we play the "Who has it worst" game everybody looses, because everybody spends all eternity showing off how sad their story is instead of trying to improve it.

Well not to mention that often the problem is not isolated to one group but both sides. The problems women face are not just isolated to women but are also firmly ingrained with the issues surrounding men as well and vise versa.

Think of it like trying to find the equilibrium of a market with only supply or only demand.

"Those poor men having their children taken away because women are seen to have one and only one purpose as breeding vats, making men unsuitable!  Poor them."

It seems that now the shoe is on the other foot.

That seems like it is terrible for both of them actually. Both for the men for not having any ownership of their children and for the women for having an imposed role.

Which come to think of it is directly linked to what I said.

Fixing that situation isn't just about fixing women side or men side but rather fixing them both.

[DJ]

We always wind up in with "who has it worse" game because every single time any kind of discrimination against men is brought up it gets hijacked into women's issues. It's like feminists are actively blocking any sort of raising of awareness of discrimination against men.

[Max White]

That is because every time somebody brings up mens rights issues somebody has the insight to see how this affects everybody.
Same thing happens when you talk about womens rights.

[Neonivek]

We always wind up in with "who has it worse" game because every single time any kind of discrimination against men is brought up it gets hijacked into women's issues. It's like feminists are actively blocking any sort of raising of awareness of discrimination against men.

Well remember in the Sexism thread when we had an actual PHD feminist outright say that sexism doesn't apply to men?

So... uhhh... Yeah that does actually happen.

But I personally think it is just knee jerk reactions from both sides. That is how the "who has it worse" happens, the Discrimination Olympics tends to be a reaction from one group thinking the other is trying to exclude them.

[Vector]

Maybe if you bothered to start a men's thread, we'd stop relating things to women's issues in the thread that says "women" in the title.

[Putnam]

We always wind up in with "who has it worse" game because every single time any kind of discrimination against men is brought up it gets hijacked into women's issues. It's like feminists are actively blocking any sort of raising of awareness of discrimination against men.

Because this topic is about women's issues!

[Neonivek]

Maybe if you bothered to start a men's thread, we'd stop relating things to women's issues in the thread that says "women" in the title.

When you think about it, it is kind of impossible to talk about this topic without bringing up men.

If there is one thing Anita talks about more then women... It is men.

She is talking about what men are doing to women and if anytime a woman actually has autonomy or breaks a stereotype, it is about how a man took that away.

[DJ]

If we started men's rights thread we'd be, in your own words, MRA fuckwads.

[Max White]

Oh can we not?
I only had to use the phrase 'tropes vs men' and it was related to a poorly conceived project by people calling themselves a mens rights group. Nothing would come of it on the basis that some people would be talking about actual MRAs, while others would hear this phrase and assume they were talking about hate groups.

That disconnect would be the greatest shitstorm.

[Neonivek]

Besides this thread has had genuinely good discussions on men and women's depictions in videogames.

Which as I said, if Anita talked about something more then women, it is men.

[Vector]

If we started men's rights thread we'd be, in your own words, MRA fuckwads.

Hmm, let's see... did I ever say that?

No.  I said that "Men's Rights Activist"--those words, in that order--usually means "shitty misogynist," much like "white power group" usually means "shitty racist" or "pro-life foundation" also means "shitty misogynist" (rather than pacifist group).

I am so, so, so tired of being accused of saying things I've never said, holding opinions I've never held, because people have some axe to grind.  I say exactly what I mean.  Not something else.

[Reelya]

Maybe if you bothered to start a men's thread, we'd stop relating things to women's issues in the thread that says "women" in the title.

Seriously, no. Nobody would take a men's issue's thread seriously, and it'd be trolled into getting locked within days.

Overall it seems that while plenty of men report non-violent abuse, women are far more likely to be subjected to sexual assaults at about at a far greater rate. The conviction rates seem tied to that and the fact female perpetrators are mostly guilty of verbal abuse instead of something that can be convicted for.

Right, so domestic violence (for both genders) is defined as a certain range of things, some of which you don't agree with as "real' abuse - and it's only the men who are taking advantage of that wishy-washy "abuse" standard? You have evidence for that?

And then you say because there's another category of crime completely, where women are victimized, so were supposed to say "those male domestic violence 'so called' victims don't know how good they have it!". do you have any idea how offensive it would be to make such calculations to justify female victims?

Well there are other categories of crime where men are more victimized, so that makes female domestic violence not a real problem, too, I guess?

I guess your going to say "yes but MEN did those sexual assaults". But that doesn't make sense, because you can't blame a class of people for what individuals in that class did - and especially not to say "well a woman over here got raped, so that makes it totally ok that this unrelated guy got bashed by his girlfriend!". That's a very poor argument.