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Author Topic: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over  (Read 202582 times)

Nerjin

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1545 on: June 04, 2013, 11:55:57 pm »

Public Service Announcement:  WIFOM is the last refuge of a cornered scum.

Hi I'm the worst player to have in any mafia game ever... How is what Ford just said WIFOM?
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Dariush

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1546 on: June 05, 2013, 02:11:00 am »

Ford, don't do such appeal to emotions, especially on this scale. Either you're scum and people will never believe you again or you're town and everyone will feel bad. If it makes you feel better, I don't even remember what the tie you're talking about was about. Besides, if you're town, what do you care about losing your green? If trailflips still work, we'll know you're town and all you lose is your power. If you're scum, we win.

Also, any sympathy I had for you evaporated when you decided that saying a prayer IC after a heartfelt rant OOC was a good idea. This both undermines the sincerity and... roleplaying? Really?

Nerjin, I know I promised to believe you, but I can't. You are tunneling absent Wuba, who we didn't even know was scum before your post (not that you're saying the truth), after refusing to even divulge the role name and powers of the already-claimed-scum Ottofar. Also, your attack on Solifuge due to misreading who was claiming third party (which also leads to the small fact that you missed the last, oh, let's say third of the game which revolved about ZU's claim) stinks of desperation. And stupidity, but mostly desperation.

Oh, and your wincon stinks of bullshit. Snuff town greens? Even though we can just immediatly relight them? And even if we can't, all we lose is our powers, being able to continue voting? And you still have your greens lit, because if you don't, you lose? Which would be kinda visible to everyone? Yeah, pull the other one.

Onyxjew944

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1547 on: June 05, 2013, 06:23:57 am »

I'm sorry I assumed you'd linked me to the RIGHT GOD DAMN POST! I must be a fucking moron! I'm a god damn idiot! HOW FUCKING DARE I?
Onyxjew is out; he was already confirmed to have the god Telmorin, and thus is Town.
Emphasis on "Confirmed to have Telmorin." It was the right post, as nowhere was Okami's inspect invoked. Do calm down.

Web quit, Ottofar's confirmed scum, I quit. WE CAN'T WIN AND THAT DOESN'T SABOTAGE THE GAME! That sabotages a TEAM! THere's a major difference. Besides it's the last day! God fucking damn you!
So you're telling me that if a game that revolved around two opposing teams struggling for the victory would not be sabotaged by one of those teams walking out of the stadium?



Yeah... these blatant calls of desperation and pathetic have gotten old. I could probably dredge up a few examples, but I'm lazy. Ah, fuck it. This is too easy to not play around.

That doesn't make sense, because Wuba is a town roleblocker. The third scum would have to be Onyx.
Heh. Hahaha. I think I've been the most confirmed person in this game, and I don't even speak half the time! Seriously, accusing me without the slightest shred of proof or argument about it, and then abandoning that line of inquiry within minutes. I have to admit, I expected better of you.

'Kay, I'm done.


Snuff Ford Green
Snuff Nerjin Green


You know, Nerjin, what would really help make us believe you, is not badgering the town in a direction it doesn't want to go. Giving up Ottofar entirely would help as well. You never know, we might start reading your posts then.
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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1548 on: June 05, 2013, 10:17:27 am »

Nerjin:
Public Service Announcement:  WIFOM is the last refuge of a cornered scum.

Hi I'm the worst player to have in any mafia game ever... How is what Ford just said WIFOM?

I meant you and Ottofar.


Onyx:
That doesn't make sense, because Wuba is a town roleblocker. The third scum would have to be Onyx.
Heh. Hahaha. I think I've been the most confirmed person in this game, and I don't even speak half the time! Seriously, accusing me without the slightest shred of proof or argument about it, and then abandoning that line of inquiry within minutes. I have to admit, I expected better of you.

What besides the word of a dead claimed third party do you have confirming you?
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Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1549 on: June 05, 2013, 01:41:42 pm »

Ford, don't do such appeal to emotions, especially on this scale. Either you're scum and people will never believe you again or you're town and everyone will feel bad. If it makes you feel better, I don't even remember what the tie you're talking about was about.
I hope everyone DOES feel bad. Everyone has been playing terribly and many have been complete jerks while also being incredibly wrong. (Solifuge is a HUGE offender)

You wouldn't have gotten this far without my help. If I were scum, you would still have no idea what was going on.

Besides, if you're town, what do you care about losing your green? If trailflips still work, we'll know you're town and all you lose is your power. If you're scum, we win.
THIS IS THE LAST DAY. This is the LAST CHANCE. My smoke trail doesn't matter because THE GAME WILL END. How have you not figured this out yet?

Losing my green doesn't matter because I won't lose anything. The game ends at the end of the day, so it doesn't matter if my green stays lit or not.

But if the town chooses wrong, then we lose. This is not about me. This is about winning or losing, plain and simple.

I still believe there's another third party in this game besides ZU and the scumteam. Vector's hint clearly indicated that there were 2 and 3 candles that were a threat to us. The group of 3 candles was likely the scumteam's whites. The 2 others may have been their greens, but it could also have been a 2-man cult.

From the beginning, my suspicion is that this is a story where the gods arrange a contest to decide a long-standing feud, but the game turns bad when an unexpected third party corrupts the contest -- remember when I asked about demons or third parties? That's what I was thinking of.

I think we're about to lose because of this (emphasis mine):
“Solve the riddle of the Candles. Find the Spies.”

“Only then can I be free.”

The priest's release is the signal for our victory. He's on the verge of death. If we don't save him, we lose.

I don't think this is a game where the town wins simply if the scum lose, and vice versa. I believe this is a game where all sides can lose.

...maybe I just don't understand your perspective. Because from my perspective, all I've seen anyone doing this game is making conscious decisions to lose, and that's been driving me crazy. I've had my hands full just trying to manage all of you.

Also, any sympathy I had for you evaporated when you decided that saying a prayer IC after a heartfelt rant OOC was a good idea. This both undermines the sincerity and... roleplaying? Really?
How does it undermine my sincerity?

And yes, roleplaying. Yes really.



I'm pretty sure everyone is going to lose, and there's nothing I can do about it anymore. I think Vector's absence is really, really crippling, and I don't feel it's fair for the game to end without her input (but no one seems to care).

I believe Nerjin is genuine, but ... ehh ... I've said it all already.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Dariush

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1550 on: June 05, 2013, 01:52:01 pm »

So basically, your entire argument is based on, in addition to appeal to emotion, the fact that the game WILL end today and numerous hilarious misreadings of various flavour over the course of the game. No, Vector's inspection does not mean we have to snuff whites. I don't discard the possibility, but if it indeed happens to be so, Vector's inspection won't have anything to do with it. Vector's inspection does not say anything even remotely approaching... 2-man cult? That's five (six counting ZU) anti-town in a 13-player game. Besides, why cult? Why have people been pushing their cult agenda for the entire game? It makes no sense either in-game or mechanic-wise. The whole suggestion is an abomination of several hastily strung together asspulls and puts you even further into the red on the scummeter. And finally, considering that the priest isn't physically constrained, 'free' in this case may entirely mean 'dead'. Well, that or... ascend somehow? I don't know, but there's really no other way to read it.

Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1551 on: June 05, 2013, 02:12:42 pm »

Dariush: Thank you. That was actually constructive.

I can't believe there actually is anyone who agrees with me that a cult makes no sense.

I finally started thinking there could be a cult if there was a demon who could dominate a person's mind, or could take over a person's body. There's no way they could change our religion but they could kill and subvert us.

I think the priest's bleeding and obvious pain on Day 4 indicates that what's happening to him is bad. It seemed pretty clear at the beginning that "free" was in relation to him being held by the power of the gods. Physical or not, it's clear that if we don't win today, then we lose.

But yeah...all right. I guess you're right about the scumteam, but the game has felt horribly unbalanced from the beginning. I still feel like there's a puzzle left that we haven't figured out, because nothing so far has made sense. The scumteam is horribly underpowered no matter how you look at it. They haven't had enough time to accomplish anything.

Maybe the scum's chances all revolved around lighting Ottofar's candle and activating his ability. But that still seems really weak.

If you're right, then the threat to the high priest comes from our gods and not from Morasadis. Which only serves to emphasize that we will lose unless we accomplish our objective.



Snuffing town greens makes sense as a scum objective, though. What did they do for the first thee nights? They snuffed town greens. Not whites. Greens. I don't think Nerjin is lying about that.



That doesn't make sense, because Wuba is a town roleblocker. The third scum would have to be Onyx.
Heh. Hahaha. I think I've been the most confirmed person in this game, and I don't even speak half the time! Seriously, accusing me without the slightest shred of proof or argument about it, and then abandoning that line of inquiry within minutes. I have to admit, I expected better of you.
That's umm...wrong. Your name came from the list of people who have lit green candles, which was compiled by Solifuge. If you'll notice, every read I've provided on you indicates that I believe you to be town.

*sigh* I feel like everybody is only reading half the thread.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Onyxjew944

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1552 on: June 05, 2013, 06:06:42 pm »

Onyx:
That doesn't make sense, because Wuba is a town roleblocker. The third scum would have to be Onyx.
Heh. Hahaha. I think I've been the most confirmed person in this game, and I don't even speak half the time! Seriously, accusing me without the slightest shred of proof or argument about it, and then abandoning that line of inquiry within minutes. I have to admit, I expected better of you.

What besides the word of a dead claimed third party do you have confirming you?
Current Scum Candidates:
Onyxjew is out; he was already confirmed to have the god Telmorin, and thus is Town.
Onyxjew944 - I feel fairly confident that he's town.
Beyond Solifuge a few times throughout the past ten pages, Captain Ford's occasional comment, and the alignment cop, no one.



That doesn't make sense, because Wuba is a town roleblocker. The third scum would have to be Onyx.
Heh. Hahaha. I think I've been the most confirmed person in this game, and I don't even speak half the time! Seriously, accusing me without the slightest shred of proof or argument about it, and then abandoning that line of inquiry within minutes. I have to admit, I expected better of you.
That's umm...wrong. Your name came from the list of people who have lit green candles, which was compiled by Solifuge. If you'll notice, every read I've provided on you indicates that I believe you to be town.

*sigh* I feel like everybody is only reading half the thread.
Yes. Almost every read you've had said I was Town. Which just makes tha─Wait, I think my mind finally realized what you were saying. You weren't stating that as a transitive property meaning I'm scum, you were saying it as in "If Wubba is X, then Onyx would be scum. Which is impossible." As narcissistic as that paraphrase sounds, I think that was the meaning, albeit with more patting me on the back. My bad, Captain.
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Captain Ford

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1553 on: June 05, 2013, 06:20:54 pm »

Onyx: You have somehow retained your sanity. I am jealous.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Mephansteras

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1554 on: June 05, 2013, 06:57:42 pm »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Snuff Captain Ford Green: Dariush, notquitethere, Ottofar, webadict, Solifuge, Toaster
Snuff Nerjin Green: Dariush, Nerjin, notquitethere, webadict, Solifuge, Tiruin, Toaster
Snuff Nerjin White: Captain Ford
Snuff Ottofar White: Captain Ford
Snuff webadict Green: Nerjin
Snuff Tiruin Green: Ottofar



  The final votes are cast and Captain Ford's and Nerjin's Green candles flicker and go out.
 
  The glow around the High Priest intensifies for a bit, and then fades. A glowing figure is all that remains of him, and it has grown twice the size of a man.
 
  A voice eminates from it. Layered voice upon voice, as if many were speaking the same words at once.
 
  "You have failed. All of you. You were given all the tools you needed, and yet none of you managed to do what was asked of you."
 
  The room goes very dim, with every light in the room fading down to a spark. Only the figure remains, towering over you in the gloom. You find yourselves frozen in place, unable to step off of your disks.
 
  "So be it. The conflict will endure. The War shall continue for generations to come."
 
  The rooms shudders and the earth shifts beneath you. Great cracks appear in the walls and you are all thrown from you feet. Screams echo about the chamber, you can hear shouts and boots thumping outside the chamber as the lesser priests and acolytes flee the crumbling building.
 
  The figure dissapears from view as masonry collapses all about you.
 
  A chunk of ceiling falls down upon the ring of candles, and the last thing any of you see is the last light of the room flicker out. 






Game has Ended!


I will post the initial role PMs and the night actions, and then I'll explain what was actually going on in this game.


Spy Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/iXKnbGQtuUbYN


Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)

 
 
Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)

 
Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)


 
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Mephansteras

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - The Storm Breaks
« Reply #1555 on: June 05, 2013, 06:58:33 pm »

 
Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)

 
Spoiler: Night 4 (click to show/hide)

 
Spoiler: Night 5 (click to show/hide)

 
Spoiler: Night 6 (click to show/hide)
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Mephansteras

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over
« Reply #1556 on: June 05, 2013, 07:14:22 pm »

Now, as for what was going on this this game.

There were a few things that made this a Bastard Game.

First the Candles. Which you guys basically had figured out by the end.

White - Life/Voice. A player with their White candle unlit could not speak, vote, or use any actions.
Green - Power - A player with their Green candle unlit could not use any Powers
Teal - Spirit - A player with their Teal candle unlit would not gain any of the hints handed out through the game.

Not all players had their Green or Teal candles lit. The unlit Green candles at the Start of the game would give much more powerful abilities than the candles that started lit.

The idea here was to take Mafia and break it down into a finer grain. Hence the ability to give/remove people's powers and voice. The Teal candle was mostly there so I could mess with the balance of the game by giving people advice or hints as I needed. It was also Okami/ZU's win condition to have all Teal candles lit.

Town win condition: Have all Scum players with either their White or Green candles unlit.
Scum win condition: Have equal or greater number of Scum players with their White and/or Green candles lit than the Town
3rd Party win condition: Have all Conscious players have their Teal candle lit (everyone with a white to have a lit teal)

Of course, this situation by itself is a never ending cycle. Neither side could win since it's too easy to just undo what was voted on. So I gave the game a few more twists:

1) No role flips. While the candles could give hints as to who was on what side, they weren't role flips per se and the spies candles give off scents that could also apply to the Lomonthian gods just as well.
2) The game has an unspoken timer of 7 game days.
3) The game rules and player powers will change as things get closer to the end. These rules will be specifically designed to rebalance the game so that all sides have a decent chance of winning if they figure out what to do and play well.

This is why, after a few days, the candle changes became permanent. For the most part, anyway, since the scum could still Snuff a lit candle even if it had the unchanging Red flame.

Overall, I think this game suffered from over thinking. The puzzle wasn't much of a puzzle, but everyone kept wanting to believe that there was more going on. Since there wasn't, people would get frustrated as their theories kept unraveling after a bit.

It was interesting to watch, and I wonder if I needed to be much more specific in my hints to people. As it was, I felt like I was throwing all the clues to the game around constantly without people really figuring it out.

Also, I'm never running a game that requires that many things to keep track of again. That spreadsheet was a giant PAIN to keep track of. And I apologize for the cases where things got misplaced or missed in the process.
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Remuthra

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over
« Reply #1557 on: June 05, 2013, 07:22:06 pm »

Man, I really wish I had been a bigger factor in this game. Vigilante role?

Mephansteras

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over
« Reply #1558 on: June 05, 2013, 07:25:01 pm »

Man, I really wish I had been a bigger factor in this game. Vigilante role?

Heh. Here is the power you would have gotten (initially): Master the Flame - You may Light or Extinguish any candle (Night action)
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ToonyMan

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Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Game Over
« Reply #1559 on: June 05, 2013, 07:33:56 pm »

Another Meph bastard where everyone loses.  :(
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