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[Captain Ford]

EBWOP: Oh, and both shattered candles were UNLIT. If it's not obvious, the candle lighting ability became a candle shattering ability.

So, you discarded the possibilities that 1) scum simply got a new ability; 2) scum could always shatter candles; 3) the possible ability changes depending on outside factors and so on and so forth... why exactly? Apart from the fact that you're lazy scum appealing to emotion and covering your actions, that is.

Hey Solifuge, on the subject of withholding information from town, how about you tell us what you Tiruin just did to you?

Fuck, seriously? Yes, I did discard those possibilities, because they're stupid.

1. It changed on the night the storm started.
2. If the scum could blow up lit candles, why haven't they used it to explode white candles?
3. Because they stopped lighting candles on the same night.

It's a PERFECT FIT. It works conceptually, it works logically, and it works well with the strategic decisions we've been seeing.


Okay. I hope we can cut the melodrama and get some rational discussion done here. Based on the advice I received, this is the end of the game.

Dariush, I think your god's advice means we snuff the enemy's greens, not light our own.

Regarding the No-Light on Day 1
I believe that the scum chose to not light a candle on day 1. Why?
1. If they lit one of their own candles, they'd expose themselves. Very risky, especially on the first day.
2. If they lit one of the town's candles, they'd be empowering their enemy. Sure, it might make them look scummy, but you can't count on that, especially if they gain a powerful pro-town ability.
3. If they don't light a candle on the first night, and do on the second, somebody might claim a roleblock or redirect on a townie. This strategy has come up in every game I've played, though it's not always used, in this case, it is the best choice.

When the scum chose to hide Ottofar's candle on the second night, and then light his green, they made it look like they'd lit two candles that night, and hoped they could use the confusion to hide Ottofar's alignment while getting a scum green lit.

_{(I don't know. Something about that still doesn't strike me right. Why didn't he just lie about his ability? Then he might have had a chance to use it. I'll have to ask him)}

Occam's Razor, though. The simplest explanation is that Ottofar is scum and they've been keeping him alive because he keeps them one person closer to winner.


Ottofar: If you'll indulge me, why didn't you just lie about your ability? It should have been obvious that revealing it's name and mode of operation would make the rest of the players anxious.

That or you made a really dumb falseclaim.

Scum have been killing our Green Candles instead of our Whites... which indicates to me that we need to keep some of the Green Candles of the Town lit, and snuff the Green Candles of the Scum, in order to win.

This just isn't true. They snuffed Remuthra's white last night and blew up ZU's white.


I went digging through everyone's posts. I was very suspicious of Toaster at first for being aloof and opportunistic, but going over his posts I realized he was a lot more involved than I originally thought. I went through a similar process with NQT. By process of elimination, I found myself looking at Nerjin.

Nerjin is my top scumpick. He's been quiet and aloof the whole game, he was the last to claim his ability, he claimed an ability identical to Webadict's, and most of his contributions look like this.
- Also, when he claimed his actions on Day 6, he listed Night 6 as unclaimed, which makes sense because night 6 hadn't happened yet, but the implication there is that he knew there was going to be a night 6 and didn't say anything about it while many of us thought we were at LYLO.
- And add gloating to the list.

...he's DEFINITELY scum. I'd stake my life on it. No joke.

[webadict]

Sorry if that was rude. I would briefly like to draw your attention to part of what you just said here:

I DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS ALL THE TIME.
-snip-
I SOMETIMES THINK THE WRONG THING.

Do you ever think that maybe right now is one of those times? It's cool to be wrong, or to have doubts, so long as you are alright with owning them. You may consider adjusting course based on new information right now.

And realize that, from my perspective (and everyone else who doesn't have a window into your head)? You really were saying absolutely nothing, and it's pissing me off.

Back later.

Have fun losing.

[Captain Ford]

I hope the profanity at the start of my last post didn't distract you from the very quiet and rational discussion that follows my reply to Dariush, and the case I made against Nerjin.

Also, EBWOP:

...he's DEFINITELY scum.  I'd stake my life on it. No joke. (In retrospect, this just feels juvenile)

[Nerjin]

Nerjin is my top scumpick. He's been quiet and aloof the whole game, he was the last to claim his ability, he claimed an ability identical to Webadict's, and most of his contributions look like this.
- Also, when he claimed his actions on Day 6, he listed Night 6 as unclaimed, which makes sense because night 6 hadn't happened yet, but the implication there is that he knew there was going to be a night 6 and didn't say anything about it while many of us thought we were at LYLO.
- And add gloating to the list.

...he's DEFINITELY scum. I'd stake my life on it. No joke.

Well Ford you caught me. I'll own up to it. I'm scum through and through. Allow me to tell you why each of your points is right on the head of the nail.

I've posted less than everyone else. Except Solifuge and Onyxjew and a few others. Allow me to explain further: I've posted less content per post than some would like. Now the fact that I posted more often than everyone and thus replied to less per post is an obvious lie. Must be scum, I'm glad you picked up on that. So yes I have been quiet and aloof the entire game due to me... posting more than almost everyone else but that's not the point.

As for me claiming an ability identical to webadict... Yes he had protect and I claimed protect. NEVER in the history of the game of mafia has there been two protects in the same game. You have pierced the veil of my lies my friend. Congratulations. Of course there's the possibility that we both had protects but obviously that's wrong. Alright... Sarcasm over.

For most of my contributions being short... I'll give you that one in a non-sarcastic manner. Yes I didn't have LARGE posts but the fact that I replied rather often meant that I had less to reply to. There's also points where I simply didn't have much to add and so didn't want to write an essay explaining "This is how I feel and this is why" as it just mucks it up and makes it harder for people to read the posts.

Your whole "Knew there'd be a night six" bit is just really just WIFOM. So good job on that one. There's nothing I can say to defend against that.

"Gloating"? More WIFOM. I simply commented on what was happening. Besides someone else claimed responsibility for that one.

[Captain Ford]

It's not that you had short posts, Nerjin. The point I intended to make is that you used them to spread confusion. You were the first person to propose a theory on why Ottofar didn't die when his white seemed to be snuffed.

Also, why did you ask this question?

Great Statue thingy: Is it possible to make more candles or to destroy candles? If so what would the new candles do?

[Tiruin]

Have fun losing.

After that window of..rage(?), as well as that vote on Ford, I don't think anything was gained from all that. The speculation on cult, then adding me in it? Bluh. That was pretty cheeky.

I mean, you came in guns blazing and focused on Ottofar's candle like it was nothing--instant information, then shift and shift, evade words related to before and now. What matters is now, and then somehow you put the evident 'working for 5 people' or..much other things.

There is a cult. Why would you give a third party an inspection as his first ability?

To catch scum. >_>

Then, notice the correlation between the four that were inspected and how they voted, with the reasoning behind how they voted. IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT CONNECTION, THIS COMMUNICATION ENDS, I LEAVE, TOWN LOSES, BECAUSE AT THAT POINT I HAVE OVERESTIMATED EVERYONE'S REASONING ABILITY.

"Qui tacet consentit." If you will not hear my words and be blinded by your own, obfuscate our vision, then so be it. My words lie in silence. I am not in a cult, nor do I believe there is one. Your threats will fall on deaf ears now. This is a teamgame, and I haven't detected any persuasive attempts other than derogatory threats as of late, now.

Reasoning ability? Have you appealed to reason? Perhaps. But what I saw was the lack of 'ponder on this' but the abundance of declarative and definitive statements, coupled with the sudden withholding of information on the last bloody day, and ending with an 'I Quit' statement. I mean, hello? What reasoning is there? An insult to logic, is what I see. You spout cult, yet have nothing to go with it.


Solifuge: I hope you know what we're doing. Do it right. Snuff all greens.

And the real obvious kicker is that Tiruin has voted for whose Greens?
Captain Ford's, Nerjin's, and mine

The only remaining Greens he doesn't wish to snuff are Onyxjew, himself, and Vector.

Overall, no one's trying but me. Or if someone is trying, they're doing it so incredibly poorly.

I just don't care anymore. I just. Don't. Care.

Looks like someone omits Dariush, Toaster and many others, huh. Nobody is trying--we're all trying, and being a condescending, airheaded priest isn't one thing to teach your fellow idiots on reasoning, is it?

Naah wait, we're all stupid so we'll lose.

Lynch those Greens.

[Nerjin]

It's not that you had short posts, Nerjin. The point I intended to make is that you used them to spread confusion. You were the first person to propose a theory on why Ottofar didn't die when his white seemed to be snuffed.

Also, why did you ask this question?

Great Statue thingy: Is it possible to make more candles or to destroy candles? If so what would the new candles do?

I don't see how I'd use them to spread confusion. I said what I felt was right at the time for each of them.

The reason I asked this question? I wanted to make pretty red candles... I just like red candles. As for the destroy thing I was wondering why the game was so unbalanced towards scum [which it seemed to be due to their loss of a night kill]. While I don't want them to win I also don't want an unfair game. If I win I want it to be because of me and my team being good at what we need to do and not because "Oh herpy-derp they literally CAN'T win."

Without challenge mafia is boring. I signed up to play mafia with a puzzle. Not puzzle with a mafia... If that makes sense.

[webadict]

I'm a cultist. I can't read. I'm voting to remove all the Greens of anyone that's not my cult partners. I can't be bothered to look at the scoreboard that shows that Toaster or Dariush do not have Greens, because I'm really bad at this game. I believe that misconstruing the facts is the best way to play this game because that's how scumteams win games, which I'm most definitely not a part of. I suck at this game. No one will call me out on this except webadict, because everyone else in this game allows things like that. Snuffing all the Greens makes Town lose the game. No one will bother to find out why. Third parties totally get inspections to find scum because I couldn't think of a stupider reason.

Dariush refuses to play with me. Fine. I am never coming back after this post. What a horrid excuse for a person. Expect him to reply with how much of a baby I am, because no one wants to call him out on his crap. I'm done with it. If he wants to act like that, I'm going to leave. Simple and elegant. Have fun.

If Town wants to win, lynch Captain Ford's and Nerjin's Greens. I'd explain why, but I don't care. Or don't do it. Whatever. I don't care anymore. I might consider using my ability. Haha. Nah. That would involve me looking at the thread one more time, which I'm not going to do.

This game has been so unsatisfactory, that I literally have to quit. Mods should take this opportunity to learn the several mistakes in this game.

I'd say goodbye, but hahaha, this game blows. So, instead, I'll say nothing, because this game should simply end. And if you want to end it for Town, those are the two to vote for. Just like th

[Nerjin]

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  I feel alone now...

Snuff Webadict White

Snuff Ottofar White

Snuff Nerjin White

[Toaster]

Snuff Nerjin White

Wat.


I would admit I've lost the thread of this game, but I don't think I ever had it in the first place.


Web:  Assuming you don't care any more, why not just explain?  Like you said, you don't care any more, so why not indulge us? 

[Nerjin]

Ottofar because he's scum.

Web because he quit.

Myself because I'm also done.

[Tiruin]

As for me claiming an ability identical to webadict... Yes he had protect and I claimed protect. NEVER in the history of the game of mafia has there been two protects in the same game. You have pierced the veil of my lies my friend. Congratulations. Of course there's the possibility that we both had protects but obviously that's wrong. Alright... Sarcasm over.

This is a frickin' lie and you know it. There have been games with 2 protects, EVEN MORE. But the fact is, none of your protects even hit, doubly so that your targets are..quite spread out.

@Web: That thing I said @Toaster/Dar was just to emphasize how illogical a cult was.
> If there was a cult, we'd have already lost.
> If ZU, and by that idea, Okami, was the cult leader, then there'd be no more cult as he's gone.
> ZU's in the healing hall as someone shattered his white candle--somehow, scum or whoever targeted it seem very concerned on that matter.
> Back to first statement: If there was a cult, then we'd have already lost.
> Scum care about third parties as they can't win when they're here.

Here's the standing of Green Candles right now:

** Captain Ford: Lit
** Nerjin: Lit
** Onyxjew944: Lit
** webadict: Lit
** Tiruin: Lit
** Vector: Lit
Dariush: Out
notquitethere: Out
Remuthra: Out
Toaster: Out
zombie urist: Out Permanently (Wickless)
Ottofar: Out Permanently (Wickless)
Solifuge: Shattered

** Among these players are our potential Scum Player, and who we need to snuff today.

I'm going to be out for most of the afternoon, but I will do a review of whose candles haven't been touched by scum, which have remained lit for long periods, and so on much later this evening. I'm afraid this might be our last shot, so if you're going to be active, be active now. I'd like your primary Scum Suspects, and your reasoning. Sound good?

My candles have never been touched so far as I'm aware. Primary suspects go out to Ottofar, Nerjin, Ford. Webadict? Maybe. He's being vague and withholding information.

Spoiler: @Webadict (click to show/hide)

Look dude. I know that feeling of disempowerment and futility. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY THE ROLE AS A CARRY WHEN TAKING ON A TEAM GAME LIKE THIS. YOU SHOULD PLAY YOUR ROLE INSTEAD, and follow up from there! If you want to persuade, do it not from a damned condescending viewpoint. If you want to rationalize, don't insult other's rational viewpoints. Because we AREN'T YOU. We see things DIFFERENTLY.

If you're going to quit over that weak matter, then so be it. If you'd want to be blind to what others are saying, then so be it. But quit when the game is OVER and not while it's running.

You want to appeal to the notion of playing due to people quitting? That's against a wincon, or that you can't achieve the wincon.

Town wincon: Break Traitor's Power. That's it.
Any other wincon: Must be different.

QED, perhaps?

Occam's Razor, though. The simplest explanation is that Ottofar is scum and they've been keeping him alive because he keeps them one person closer to winner.

Or as a pawn so that his candles would be protected. That white ivory thing? Didn't change throughout Balance.


Aw bloody hell. Quitters. 'I QUIT, I GIVE UP.' BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Come on people. You've signed up to play this game through the end. Is it because you can't fathom what's going on? I can't either--people are closing communication everywhere and on what reasons? Because the game's taking too long? Because other people are being unreasonable?

The only two people I see being unreasonable are Dariush for his blotchy attitude, and probably Webadict with the reel of information and then quitting for absurd reasons. Apologies if that would sound offensive, but that's what I'm seeing there. Lately, Nerjin, for absolutely nothing I see wrong.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...  I feel alone now...

Why?

Heck, if you all are scum, which is damn bloody unreasonable, then go ahead and do such. Town should just break power. That's it. I'm pretty unsure why people are all fussy over these things now.

Ottofar because he's scum.

Web because he quit.

Myself because I'm also done.

Why?

People quitting.

[Nerjin]

1. I see there being a cult. I've been convinced of the fact.

2. It's the last day and basically nothing has been done. Everyone's all spread out.

3. I'm not having fun anymore and don't wanna deal with this anymore. It might just be my mood right now but I don't want to deal with things that make me unhappy. Maybe tomorrow I'll come back all "Yeah let's go gettem guys!" but for now it seems unlikely. I've been thinking about quitting for a while due to how this game makes me sad-face.

[Tiruin]

Actually, looking it over, I'm sort of getting what Web means. Sadly, I can't agree with him on the quitting notion.

> Scum had a protect, used twice over in the Balance days--both on Otto's White candle. It is to be assumed he's been a pawn. (but damn was this a demoralizer.)
> ZU/Mr. Elder Priest's role was doubtful. He was an idealist, a free-thinker of the world, against conventional laws. His wincon was knowledge, ie ALL Teal candles lit. Do we need that now/does it make sense for his cult to be a factor, or a detrimental factor? IMO, No.
> The game changes and someone, or probably the Gods themselves have been tampering with our powers. I still say remove all green candles. Why? The Gods grant us power. Without it (ie Our Whites being lit), we're only human. Human priests with our votes. Nothing more, nothing less. What's so wrong with that, huh?

The idea is that we beat scum by numbers. All green out? Nothing can be done by them.

The kicker? Check the # of living priests.

1. I see there being a cult. I've been convinced of the fact.

2. It's the last day and basically nothing has been done. Everyone's all spread out.

3. I'm not having fun anymore and don't wanna deal with this anymore. It might just be my mood right now but I don't want to deal with things that make me unhappy. Maybe tomorrow I'll come back all "Yeah let's go gettem guys!" but for now it seems unlikely. I've been thinking about quitting for a while due to how this game makes me sad-face.

*sigh*

We've until Tuesday so sort this out. Listen Nerjin, check the above. The answer is simple--though I do offer you a cookie if that helps your mood. Depression sucks. :<

[Nerjin]

I actually dislike cookies but the notion means a lot.

Alright, allow me to mention something first before I address your outline there.

I hate the changing powers. As soon as I feel like I've learned what I'm doing and what direction the game goes and just before I come up with a brilliant plan to help us all make it out of this damn thing alive... meph changes my power. Well damn... Guess I'll learn this one now. Oh... it changed again... Oh it's the last day and there's a hard-coded time limit?

I don't mind playing a game. I would prefer the rules stay somewhat static. There's a puzzle here that I can't solve because the rules keep changing.

Alright now onto my thoughts:

Your plan won't work Tiruin. The game ends tonight. I do like the idea though.

Elder priest... Bah. He can rot in hell for all I care. If he was a cult-leader than we eliminated something that we didn't know if it'd hurt us. I certainly wouldn't keep a ticking box around. Even if it's harmless there's no way for me to know and better safe than sorry.