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[notquitethere]

(Sorry, at work right now, but will post answering all questions when I get home later. Just a quick thing: no Toaster, I am not some strange third party).

[RangerCado]

I'd like to point out i'm at L-1 right now. I have some real-life stuff to care of at the moment so i'll be back in approximately an hour. but i will address this:

Griff: Yes i say NQT has done the same, but did i fail to answer the question? The same can be said for the not-voting point. I voted shortly after and then proposed more questions. I still believe my previous case against tiruin, though i'm coming to suspect NQT has a godfather ability of some sort. Also, how exactly does using a protect on someone make them look bad? Seriously, i'd like to know how this makes sense.

[Tiruin]

I'd like to point out i'm at L-1 right now. I have some real-life stuff to care of at the moment so i'll be back in approximately an hour. [...]

So is TolyK.

[RangerCado]

wait, how is he when the votes are spread between me, you, and him? I thought that i had 3, you had 2 and tolyk had 1...

[webadict]

WUBA:  Does the Mafia team have a Mafiakill?

Q. Does the Mafia have a kill they can use at Night?
A. Yes. It is called the Mafiakill. It is available to all members of the Mafia.

Why do I even bother with an FAQ if no one bothers to reads them?

[Griffionday]

READ UPDATE:

From the FAQ:

Q. Does the SK/Cult have a built-in kill/convert?
A. No. No other alignment besides Mafia has any group ability available to them.

NQT's ability is the only claimed ability that could logically create a cult; it also gives a more sinister reasoning behind the chat.  It's certainly an interesting concept to make a cult be created by an unwitting party; but as a concept it would be a beautiful way to create confusion within the game and give a two man cult a chance for victory.

Another thing to note (thank you TolyK for pointing it out): The lovers are slightly over-simplifying how town would win if one of them were scum.

Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead. (Mafia, Cult, SK, Lyncher, Assassin and respective Allies and Brothers)

In other words they both have to die to win as town: however if they chose to win as scum, they both win while remaining alive.

On the same note; if one of them is scum and the other town, it is now impossible for them to lose unless a third party wins; so they could be trying for the more skillful win just for fun.


Ranger:

To answer, my back-story doesn't mention Ford at all actually. He and I had a conversation awhile back that somehow turned to government. Thats why i asked for Ford to tell you that specifically.

As for where i found this quote: Page 81, 4th to last post.

Yes you actually answered that question way back when you made your first claim, and I was perfectly aware that you were trying to validate my claim with your inquiry after Ford.  In general I'm wondering what the back-story that Web created for this game is; and interested if anyone has information on that.

You also adequately answered my questions regarding your role's flavor in this post.  I still feel it's a bit weak, but I don't see anything more to gain from pressing that angle.

((Note: this is why I want to know the flavor: I wanted to know the abilities & element to do a basic, if wifomie, cross check.))

[Toaster]

Hammer is four votes, not three.  Nobody is L-1.


Griff:

Another thing to note (thank you TolyK for pointing it out): The lovers are slightly over-simplifying how town would win if one of them were scum.

Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead. (Mafia, Cult, SK, Lyncher, Assassin and respective Allies and Brothers)

In other words they both have to die to win as town: however if they chose to win as scum, they both win while remaining alive.

On the same note; if one of them is scum and the other town, it is now impossible for them to lose unless a third party wins; so they could be trying for the more skillful win just for fun.

True, but if we were one scum and one town, then the townie would die anyway if you killed the scum, so it's kind of a non-issue.

As I understand it's possible to misinterpret what I'm trying to get at in my read one you please respond to the following: Why did you claim that you could potentially play as a mafia/sk ally for your brother?  And more importantly why have you dropped that as a possibility and decided that only him selling out his allies would be a possible response to being bothered?  It seems like you've reanalyzed the reasons behind why TolyK would tell you that he's scum; but considering that you've had three days to consider all the possibilities and hash them out with TolyK you SHOULD NOT have needed to reassess.   Ergo you're lying about the brother win-con.

I claimed it was true because it's true.  The rest of your argument I don't follow at all.  To put it in perspective, I clarified the dual wincon with Web on 4/21, which was right before ZU got lynched on D2.  Since then I've completely trusted in his townhood.  All bits about one town/one scum were thrown out as hypotheticals.


In any case, Web's clarification pretty much nails Ranger to the wall.

[Tiruin]

TolyK, query.

Why did you state that if Toaster dies, you die at the same time?

NQT claimed that if one dies, the other will die in the next phase.

WUBA:  Does the Mafia team have a Mafiakill?

Q. Does the Mafia have a kill they can use at Night?
A. Yes. It is called the Mafiakill. It is available to all members of the Mafia.

Why do I even bother with an FAQ if no one bothers to reads them?

Votecount please

[Griffionday]

Toaster:

I claimed it was true because it's true.  The rest of your argument I don't follow at all.  To put it in perspective, I clarified the dual wincon with Web on 4/21, which was right before ZU got lynched on D2.

Could you back that up with quotes from the relevant period from your lover's chat?  Specifically the ones around where you (or he, depending on who came up the explanation) discuss this as the logical reaction to you both being town, and the ones right before and after Web's clarification?  (They should be in the same area, so this should be fairly easy.)

Since then I've completely trusted in his townhood.  All bits about one town/one scum were thrown out as hypotheticals.

I don't trust you at all, you're playing this game FAR too black and white to ever be a safe town read for me.  Your case is based on so many assumptions that you've no reason to be as confident in it as you are.  You seem 100% confident there are three members to the mafia, and that no other balance makes any sense.  You are completely confident that the mafia will always use their night-kill; when it's obvious not using their night-kill once or twice would give them a VERY good alibi (which I saw as obvious after night two.)  You are completely sure that TolyK will play the game logically and tell you that he is scum, DESPITE BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH OTHER HYPOTHETICALS.

And the most damning thing to my eyes is that, even after completely missing your read against Sheep, you hardly pause before being willing to vote Ranger with the same lack of reflection.  Your read is NOT BASED on your own work, rather a chart your cohort threw together.

Web: How would a brother to a SK work?  Specifically; would the SK win if he killed everyone except his brother?

[Toaster]

Toaster:

I claimed it was true because it's true.  The rest of your argument I don't follow at all.  To put it in perspective, I clarified the dual wincon with Web on 4/21, which was right before ZU got lynched on D2.

Could you back that up with quotes from the relevant period from your lover's chat?  Specifically the ones around where you (or he, depending on who came up the explanation) discuss this as the logical reaction to you both being town, and the ones right before and after Web's clarification?  (They should be in the same area, so this should be fairly easy.)

I am pretty sure I can't quote lover chat directly, but let me make sure- some mods object (but I do note apparent direct quotes of dead chat by you with no objection to Web.  Let me make sure.

Since then I've completely trusted in his townhood.  All bits about one town/one scum were thrown out as hypotheticals.

I don't trust you at all, you're playing this game FAR too black and white to ever be a safe town read for me.  Your case is based on so many assumptions that you've no reason to be as confident in it as you are.  You seem 100% confident there are three members to the mafia, and that no other balance makes any sense.  You are completely confident that the mafia will always use their night-kill; when it's obvious not using their night-kill once or twice would give them a VERY good alibi (which I saw as obvious after night two.)  You are completely sure that TolyK will play the game logically and tell you that he is scum, DESPITE BEING ABLE TO COME UP WITH OTHER HYPOTHETICALS.

Okay then- how many people do you think are mafia?  Because I think three.   Do you think said mafia used their nightkill last night?

If TolyK told me he was town when he wasn't, given each of us wins when the other does, he is playing to lose.  He may be goofy, but he's not an idiot.

And the most damning thing to my eyes is that, even after completely missing your read against Sheep, you hardly pause before being willing to vote Ranger with the same lack of reflection.  Your read is NOT BASED on your own work, rather a chart your cohort threw together.

Hardly pause?  That was eight RL days ago.

What cohort?

[webadict]

Web: How would a brother to a SK work?  Specifically; would the SK win if he killed everyone except his brother?

Yes, because he could vote to lynch himself. Unless he couldn't vote, I suppose, in which case, everyone would lose.

[Griffionday]

Toaster:

I am pretty sure I can't quote lover chat directly, but let me make sure- some mods object (but I do note apparent direct quotes of dead chat by you with no objection to Web.  Let me make sure.

Buying time to come up with plausible quotes are you?

Okay then- how many people do you think are mafia?  Because I think three.   Do you think said mafia used their nightkill last night?

I think we're looking to find at least two more scum, personally I'm betting one mafia one third party.  But I'm not the one making arguments based solely on there being only one left. 
I think it would make perfect sense for them not to have used it; my reads don't require them to have or have not though.

If TolyK told me he was town when he wasn't, given each of us wins when the other does, he is playing to lose.

What? He's playing for a drawn out win, with a shorter, less satisfying win as a consolation prize if he gets lynched.  There is also the possibility that you're BOTH doing this, which I consider equally likely.

What cohort?

The person whose bandwagon you so blithely joined: NQT.  Sorry for using the wrong term; but I don't know what the correct term for it would be.

Hardly pause?  That was eight RL days ago.

Eight days in which you apparently have not reconsidered your tunneling method as an acceptable means of scum hunting.

[Vector]

Griffionday, attacking someone over finding out if quotes are okay--when usually that's an instant-modkill offense--is not okay.

[Griffionday]

Griffionday, attacking someone over finding out if quotes are okay--when usually that's an instant-modkill offense--is not okay.

...I'm far luckier than I thought...

Toaster:
My apologies for that low blow.

[RangerCado]

UNVOTE, i need to revaluate whats going on.