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[TolyK]

While re-reading I suddenly realized a question I wanted to ask NQT:
Do you know if your lover thing changes peoples' wincons?

Sorry for another WoT..

Ahem.  Anyway, yes, you shouldn't lynch TolyK because you should lynch Sheep.  TolyK is just being dumb, while Sheep is being scum.

]If TolyK is dumb, Sheep dies anyway due to poison. What's your side to it?

No. He. Doesn't. I already said that my poison "fades away" when I die.

Tiruin: I guess you're mostly right. I won't revote you for now. I feel like I've gotten to a point where I think I have to vote you, and that's something I don't want.

But hang on... you're voting to poison me... but you don't think I'm scum?

No, I think he's voting to poison you and to kill me because he thinks that if I'm town then I'll let you die, and if I'm the last scum it doesn't matter any more. He probably forgot that my poison fades when I die.

People voting to not antidote me: Can you give your cases please?

Everybody: If I'm alive for the night, who should I give votes to? I can give one to myself, or one vote to two others. I'm thinking Griffionday and NQT; Griff because I trust both him and his judgement and NQT because he doesn't have a vote already, and I trust him quite a bit.

Another Question For Everybody: What do you all think of Hapah's claimed truth-telling ability?

I already presented my case - you hammered last day, along with other details which are already lost somewhere in memory, or rather in the thread.

I'd say NQT and Toaster.

I think Hapah wanted folks with protects to target Toaster so that there would be less chance of a protect stopping scum's NK or the like.

Okay, i promised reads and am feeling better so lets see what i can find.Vector hasn't done too much this game but has said she was busy multiple times. Although not being very active, she has answered any question posed to her and i see no scumminess from her. Lean-Town

NQT is who i see as the most towny. I got a town answer from my day inspect, and despite multiple claims that mess with everyones minds, he's been very forth coming about his actions and hasn't made any scummy posts to me. Town Read

I haven't found much good or bad from Toaster. Hapah's possible truth teller ability was used on him and he said he was town. Despite Hapah being Scum, i don't see anything scummy with toaster. Lean-Town

Griff has been a null read for me since Day 1, but today he has shown himself to be quite towny. He has been hunting well today, and hasn't made any scum tells i can see. Lean-Town

Tolyk's poisoning claims and rather carefree play these last few days has been a topic of arguement for a while now. Despite this, i can't see him being scum. Aside from the joking tone he has taken, nothing scummy pops out to me of his actions. If he weren't Town, i would say he was a jester of some sort, or an SK with arsonist-esque abilities. Mid point between Lean Town and Third-Party.

Sheep has appeared scummier and scummier as this day has gone by since he Hammered ZU yesterday. His actions have been unconvincing and his hunting today has been terrible. I would suggest leaving Tolyk alive and voting someone else as if Tolyk is telling the truth, we're letting sheep die to poison. Scum Read

Tiruin was my top towny pick for Day 1 and most of Day 2. Day 3 has shown a change. She has become scummier and scummier, with NQT's claim and my claim. I trust NQT and have seen no reason not to see Tiruin as scum today. Scum Read

Seems mostly logical.

If TolyK is dumb, Sheep dies anyway due to poison. What's your side to it?

Nope: as TolyK said, if he dies Sheep and NQT will not die. 

If I die in any way, the people I poisoned don't die (poison stops working). If I get lynched, then NQT and TWS will live.

which is part of why I've not voted him: he's no longer able to end the game tomorrow, so I don't quite have the urgent need to off him and can go with the scummiest. Who is... I don't know; I recall it being you but it could have been Ranger for all I know.  (LONG day.)

Yeah, this. Except, how do you know I'm not lying? :/ I'm not, but you seem to take it without a pinch of salt...

Tiruin:

If TolyK is dumb, Sheep dies anyway due to poison. What's your side to it?

Unless he gets lynched.

Again I see people have seen Tiruin's mistake...

If I die in any way, the people I poisoned don't die (poison stops working). If I get lynched, then NQT and TWS will live.

I am pretty damn sure that we have one mafioso remaining.  I'm convinced that Sheep is mafia.  I suspect that there are no other anti-town third parties.  As such, I believe that when Sheep dies the game will be over in a town victory.

If we lynch Sheep, he dies.  If we lynch TolyK, Sheep lives.  If we either no-lynch or lynch anyone but TolyK, Sheep dies if TolyK doesn't antidote him, which I damn sure hope he doesn't.  As such, if we lynch anyone but TolyK the game should end.

Therefore, lynching TolyK is the worst move we could make.  QED.

Heh.

...Mainly, I'm voting TolyK over his antics, and the idea that the poisoner replaces the NK (mafiakill-type?) That, or until we can get everyone's actions out, then we can start talking.

You seem to really strongly hold on to that idea.

Toaster If the game doesn't end when TWS dies? I'm all for that sort of point, but my suspicions lie on TolyK given his style...If I may use his words, its cheerful. Too cheerful for a man with one hand on a biotoxin, and the other on the antidote.

I mean, for someone with such a power, he'd be more attentive at least. Or in the least, more serious :/

It's a game, why can't I have fun? :/
If the game doesn't end when TWS dies, then it's definitely massclaim time.

But hang on... you're voting to poison me... but you don't think I'm scum?

I think you're scum. I think TolyK is scum. I'm pretty confused.

The problem is that there's at most only one more scum. Maybe 2, but as you say yourself, you doubt it.

One is, why would you claim a Night-action immunity D1? Second is the suspicion that TolyK has chosen those people as an easy-escape given that we've no proof of their poisoning but his word--it can act as a scapegoat given that there's nothing else to back it up [lack of NKs also prodding that notion]. Three was the newbie card--if you were with Hapah/Zrk, they'd at least be advising you on how you scumhunt. You tunneled and dug into a mountain, in circles regarding your case on me, and now you step back despite your case on me being lying; something which you couldn't clarify in a reasonable enough way.

And the only reason for voting me instead of TWS is because:

I can't see a town poisoner because...poisoner. If something like that exists, I'm changing my worldview...but, poison?! A Town poisoner? BYOE and all, That's my thoughts regarding it. It could easily be a fakeclaim as arsonist or whatnot...

Well, I can't wait to see your reaction.

...You know what, fine. If TolyK is scum and a poisoner, bah.

Tiruin:

I think you're scum. I think TolyK is scum. I'm pretty confused.

So why not lynch Sheep today (or anyone besides TolyK?)  That'll kill off Sheep and you can worry about TolyK later (or more accurately not at all because the game will be over.)

What flavor of scum do you think they are?  You suspect five scum?

...Four scum is outrageous. Five is just wrong. If this is an exaggeration, then I'm curious why :/

TheWetSheep. Get to stating things right.

I agree that that's just way to many (much?) scum.

Now. There's one thing wrong with actually lynching TWS - you don't know whether I told the truth or not. I'd prefer to lynch someone else and have TWS die via poison, that way in case TWS is town we a) might lynch scum anyways, and b) you know that I didn't lie.

Voting is currently 3-poison TWS, 2-antidote NQT, nothing going the other way (this is not counting my vote, which is poison TWS, antidote NQT).
I'd personally lynch one of Tiruin, Vector, Ranger or someone else (whoever seems more scummy to folks - I am tied between Tiruin and Vector) and leave TWS to die. If both deaths turn out to be town deaths, then next day we massclaim.
Seem good?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: I guess you're mostly right. I won't revote you for now. I feel like I've gotten to a point where I think I have to vote you, and that's something I don't want.

But hang on... you're voting to poison me... but you don't think I'm scum?

No, I think he's voting to poison you and to kill me because he thinks that if I'm town then I'll let you die, and if I'm the last scum it doesn't matter any more. He probably forgot that my poison fades when I die.

You are not Tiruin. While its nice to hear your opinion, that wasn't all on what my intention was. I love how everyone keeps on forgetting correct pronoun use.

What's your comment on Ranger's post? You said its logical, in its entirety. Nothing else?

...Smash that mistake more into my face, thanks :/

It's a game, why can't I have fun? :/

Err, your concept of fun in how you did it back there was...confusing, to say the least. Glad to see that you're doing all this despite heightened body temperature...

Well, I can't wait to see your reaction.

Wat O_o

I'd personally lynch one of Tiruin, Vector, Ranger or someone else (whoever seems more scummy to folks - I am tied between Tiruin and Vector) and leave TWS to die. If both deaths turn out to be town deaths, then next day we massclaim.

And you aren't voting. Again.

Why the two--cases on each, blah blah blah.

[notquitethere]

PFP

Sheep, everything would depend on the flips and on the night actions revealed. Given current info, I was edging to Tiruin but now the whole Hapah thing has thrown things into greater doubt. Giving away your votes would do wonders for your town credibility.

TolyK, I don't have any reason to believe the lovers have different goals. They'd have been informed by Wuba and could ask him about it if there was any doubt.

[TolyK]

Tiruin: I guess you're mostly right. I won't revote you for now. I feel like I've gotten to a point where I think I have to vote you, and that's something I don't want.

But hang on... you're voting to poison me... but you don't think I'm scum?

No, I think he's voting to poison you and to kill me because he thinks that if I'm town then I'll let you die, and if I'm the last scum it doesn't matter any more. He probably forgot that my poison fades when I die.

You are not Tiruin. While its nice to hear your opinion, that wasn't all on what my intention was. I love how everyone keeps on forgetting correct pronoun use.

My pronoun use was correct, wasn't it? It's in two logical sections.

What's your comment on Ranger's post? You said its logical, in its entirety. Nothing else?

I don't see anything wrong with it, no contradictions. And I agree with the last sentence about Sheep.

...Smash that mistake more into my face, thanks :/

I first copied the quotes into a text file, then commented on them in order. It wasn't meant as an attack on your reading ability or memory, especially considering my own...

Well, I can't wait to see your reaction.

Wat O_o

You said you would change your worldview if something existed, so... yeah.

I'd personally lynch one of Tiruin, Vector, Ranger or someone else (whoever seems more scummy to folks - I am tied between Tiruin and Vector) and leave TWS to die. If both deaths turn out to be town deaths, then next day we massclaim.

And you aren't voting. Again.

Why the two--cases on each, blah blah blah.

No, I'm not voting yet. If you want, I can vote you before I decide who to vote for the end of the day.
I don't get what you mean with "two--cases on each"...

[Toaster]

Sheep:

Toaster: You didn't explain why my vote on ZU was a "crap vote".

Because you just threw together whatever reasoning looked quick and easy so you could throw down the hammer without looking like a shameless bandwagoner.


TolyK:

I'd personally lynch one of Tiruin, Vector, Ranger or someone else (whoever seems more scummy to folks - I am tied between Tiruin and Vector) and leave TWS to die. If both deaths turn out to be town deaths, then next day we massclaim.
Seem good?

Two issues here.  First, you're naming off lynch candidates without giving any reason as to why.  Second, you're not taking ownership of your vote* and trying to pawn it off to others, thus attempting to disavow any responsibility behind it.

*Third, you're not even voting.


NQT:

Sheep, everything would depend on the flips and on the night actions revealed. Given current info, I was edging to Tiruin but now the whole Hapah thing has thrown things into greater doubt. Giving away your votes would do wonders for your town credibility.

Even if Sheep wasn't obvscum at this point, I would still disagree.  Scum can do things counter to their goals to look townie (see: Hapah) to save their own tails in the long run.  If he gives away his votes to people who don't vote for him, he's still come out ahead.

[Griffionday]

TolyK

My pronoun use was correct, wasn't it? It's in two logical sections.

I think he is a she.

Now. There's one thing wrong with actually lynching TWS - you don't know whether I told the truth or not. I'd prefer to lynch someone else and have TWS die via poison, that way in case TWS is town we a) might lynch scum anyways, and b) you know that I didn't lie.

Problems are of course: you might have been redirected so we could lose someone other than Sheep.  Btw, could you possibly antidote the people you are fairly confident are town in case you were redirected to one of them.

Voting is currently 3-poison TWS, 2-antidote NQT, nothing going the other way (this is not counting my vote, which is poison TWS, antidote NQT).
I'd personally lynch one of Tiruin, Vector, Ranger or someone else (whoever seems more scummy to folks - I am tied between Tiruin and Vector) and leave TWS to die. If both deaths turn out to be town deaths, then next day we massclaim.
Seem good?

I don't think anyone honestly considers Ranger as highly likely to be scum right now...

Toaster:
If Sheep isn't scum, or if he is and the game doesn't end who is your next target?  Seeing as TolyK is planning on offing Sheep; why aren't you voting for them?  You seem to have decided that Sheep is completely scum and all other players are completely town.

Second, you are acting VERY aloof; essentially calling us all idiots for not voting for Sheep.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a very effective way to get people to agree with you.  Lately you seem to be rushing your case against Sheep; like you're trying to get him lynched before people realize that your primary reason for being read as town is no longer around.  After Hapah flipped scum we can no longer use his claim to help interpret you: and without it you seem scummy as hell.  You're leading the lynch on Sheep based on your brilliant reads but COMPLETELY missed that Hapah = Scum when I asked you to read him; meaning your reads are not infallible.

Another thing about that: Hapah buddied you, and yet you never put an iota of pressure on him for it.  Why? You do mention that we need to take his claim with a grain of salt, but you don't ever seem to have followed your own advice.

[TolyK]

TolyK

My pronoun use was correct, wasn't it? It's in two logical sections.

I think he is a she.

Now. There's one thing wrong with actually lynching TWS - you don't know whether I told the truth or not. I'd prefer to lynch someone else and have TWS die via poison, that way in case TWS is town we a) might lynch scum anyways, and b) you know that I didn't lie.

Problems are of course: you might have been redirected so we could lose someone other than Sheep.  Btw, could you possibly antidote the people you are fairly confident are town in case you were redirected to one of them.

a) Derpity derp derp. I knew that.
b) I was planning to do that anyways.

[Toaster]

Griff:

Toaster:
If Sheep isn't scum, or if he is and the game doesn't end who is your next target?  Seeing as TolyK is planning on offing Sheep; why aren't you voting for them?  You seem to have decided that Sheep is completely scum and all other players are completely town.

I don't have a next target.  I am completely confident in Sheep's alignment.  I don't know what you mean by the underlined question- I am voting for Sheep, and I have zero reason to vote TolyK.

If he does flip Mafia and the game doesn't end... I guess the most likely scenario is that TolyK is a SK.  He's awfully vocal about his abilities to be a SK, but it's certainly possible.

Second, you are acting VERY aloof; essentially calling us all idiots for not voting for Sheep.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a very effective way to get people to agree with you.  Lately you seem to be rushing your case against Sheep; like you're trying to get him lynched before people realize that your primary reason for being read as town is no longer around.  After Hapah flipped scum we can no longer use his claim to help interpret you: and without it you seem scummy as hell.  You're leading the lynch on Sheep based on your brilliant reads but COMPLETELY missed that Hapah = Scum when I asked you to read him; meaning your reads are not infallible.

Quote me where I insulted anyone over not voting Sheep.  Also, why do I seem scummy?

I couldn't read Hapah through sheer lack of content, and I already said that.

Another thing about that: Hapah buddied you, and yet you never put an iota of pressure on him for it.  Why? You do mention that we need to take his claim with a grain of salt, but you don't ever seem to have followed your own advice.

I tried to read Hapah and came up with nothing.  I asked this question because the three of you were my top picks for scum after Sheep.  Hapah's flip just made things simple.

[notquitethere]

Toaster

Even if Sheep wasn't obvscum at this point, I would still disagree.  Scum can do things counter to their goals to look townie (see: Hapah) to save their own tails in the long run.  If he gives away his votes to people who don't vote for him, he's still come out ahead.

I understand the point, and as scum have an incentive to look townie, supposed town-tells shouldn't be relied on too deeply. And you are absolutely correct that it is in scum's interest to give votes to people that will use them to lynch town players instead, a fact that I hadn't fully considered before.

TolyK, the vote is tied between Sheep and Toaster with two votes on them apiece. Are you going to climb down from you lonely mountain and use your damned vote? It's 24 hours until the deadline and I'm sure I won't be alone in being very suspicious if your name is in the not voting list for a third time in a row.

[Tiruin]

PFP

No, I'm not voting yet. If you want, I can vote you before I decide who to vote for the end of the day.
I don't get what you mean with "two--cases on each"...

...*Tiruin facepalms.

If I want? Until you decide?

Ugh. So lax. Not even interested in using your vote. Is scum indeed. Doesn't detail posts, states in generalities and moral questions as defense.

Why aren't you voting. Why are you being so wishy-washy over anything. Expound your case on me and Vector--or your two top picks, scumbag.

I mean, looking at your statistical list? Nothing correlates.

TolyK

My pronoun use was correct, wasn't it? It's in two logical sections.

I think he is a she.

Now. There's one thing wrong with actually lynching TWS - you don't know whether I told the truth or not. I'd prefer to lynch someone else and have TWS die via poison, that way in case TWS is town we a) might lynch scum anyways, and b) you know that I didn't lie.

Problems are of course: you might have been redirected so we could lose someone other than Sheep.  Btw, could you possibly antidote the people you are fairly confident are town in case you were redirected to one of them.

a) Derpity derp derp. I knew that.
b) I was planning to do that anyways.

>_>

You knew, and now you insult me. You plan to do such, yet you don't notify.

[Griffionday]

Toaster:

I don't have a next target.  I am completely confident in Sheep's alignment.  I don't know what you mean by the underlined question- I am voting for Sheep, and I have zero reason to vote TolyK.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear: I was never suggesting voting for TolyK, all I'm saying is leave the killing of Sheep to the town vig, and use your vote to kill a target who won't die anyway.  4 anti-town roles is not anywhere near the max for this type of game BYOR 5.5 and 11 both had 5: your confidence is bordering on cocky: don't be so until town wins please.  Especially considering Webadict's comment here, it's safe to assume that this is a crazy game.

If he does flip Mafia and the game doesn't end... I guess the most likely scenario is that TolyK is a SK.  He's awfully vocal about his abilities to be a SK, but it's certainly possible.

If he really is your only other read, then I challenge you to no-vote rather than vote for the one person we can use to judge TolyK by.  Or, preferably, get a jump and lynch your next possibility in the off chance that sheep is not scum, you know, because it won't matter if you're right and we've killed the only scum left.  If Sheep somehow survives the poison we can hammer him in the morning.

Quote me where I insulted anyone over not voting Sheep.  Also, why do I seem scummy?

You mean when you weren't drunk?

I understand that people can be wrong.

This pretty much seems to sum up your attitude on our attempting to get reads on other targets than Sheep.  You also pressured Tiruin into voting for Sheep by essentially repeating that she shouldn't target TolyK. 

You seem scummy because you accepted Hapah buddying you without comment; and didn't press him on his ability, I feel if you were town that should have left a bad impression on you; but if you were scum you might accept it as something you could shrug off later if he were lynched.  You seem like you absolutely know that you're right, but aren't taking the time to re-examine your read.  You seem to be trying to pressure enough people to get a hammer, which you'll be clean in because you voted for Sheep first this time around.  And mostly you're trying to waste a town lynch on somebody who is 95% garunteed to die without needing a lynch.

You also never gave us a straight reason for your weird voting D1; which was dropped after Hapah's claim cleared you.

I couldn't read Hapah through sheer lack of content, and I already said that.

And I'm thinking that as you were the one being buddied you probably should have called him out on it to see his reaction.  Reads don't just happen, you need to make them happen.

I tried to read Hapah and came up with nothing.  I asked this question because the three of you were my top picks for scum after Sheep.  Hapah's flip just made things simple.

Yeah you did, then you minimized my case and ignored my suggestion that you prod him more.  Admittedly he DID quit right then so you may had been waiting for him to give you his reads; but you NEVER questioned his claim to his face.  You only ever said that it's not a guarantee that you were town; which is EXACTLY the amount and type of distancing I expect scum would treat other scum with.

[Griffionday]

Toaster cont.:

Also, why do I seem scummy?

Another thing:  You are the only person who has made absolutely no claims about their abilities.  I think I've made the second least, and I've at least informed everyone that I had nothing to do with the lack on NK's and that I've not targeted anyone either night.  You are also apposed to the concept of a mass-claim; which makes me a suspicious about what your abilities are that you spend so much effort to hide them.

So then:  Do you have anything to do with the lack of night-kills?  Does part of the reason you are SO sure that sheep is scum have something to do with your abilities.  Is the reason you're opposed to a mass-claim related to a mechanic based weakening of your abilities or is it that you have something that you feel would serve town better if kept secret?

[TolyK]

TolyK, the vote is tied between Sheep and Toaster with two votes on them apiece. Are you going to climb down from you lonely mountain and use your damned vote? It's 24 hours until the deadline and I'm sure I won't be alone in being very suspicious if your name is in the not voting list for a third time in a row.

PFP

No, I'm not voting yet. If you want, I can vote you before I decide who to vote for the end of the day.
I don't get what you mean with "two--cases on each"...

...*Tiruin facepalms.

If I want? Until you decide?

Ugh. So lax. Not even interested in using your vote. Is scum indeed. Doesn't detail posts, states in generalities and moral questions as defense.

The bolded sentence means, "If you'd prefer, I can put a vote down before I muster up evidence."

Why aren't you voting. Why are you being so wishy-washy over anything. Expound your case on me and Vector--or your two top picks, scumbag.

I mean, looking at your statistical list? Nothing correlates.

Ain't going through the statistical list now, going through the thread.

TolyK

My pronoun use was correct, wasn't it? It's in two logical sections.

I think he is a she.

Now. There's one thing wrong with actually lynching TWS - you don't know whether I told the truth or not. I'd prefer to lynch someone else and have TWS die via poison, that way in case TWS is town we a) might lynch scum anyways, and b) you know that I didn't lie.

Problems are of course: you might have been redirected so we could lose someone other than Sheep.  Btw, could you possibly antidote the people you are fairly confident are town in case you were redirected to one of them.

a) Derpity derp derp. I knew that.
b) I was planning to do that anyways.

>_>

You knew, and now you insult me. You plan to do such, yet you don't notify.

a) "I knew that" with the derp sequence before that means "Derp, I knew that, but I forgot."
b) I would notify before the day end. "I was planning" = "I had that in my mind".

And I'm thinking Tiruin for now, reasons when I get home.

[notquitethere]

And so creating a three-way tie, I believe. Still, plenty of time to the deadline...

[Griffionday]

I believe it's a two way tie...