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Author Topic: Magic Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 221432 times)

Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #960 on: April 30, 2013, 01:20:36 am »

@TheWetSheep: I wasn't exactly paying much attention to vote counts at the time.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #961 on: April 30, 2013, 04:44:42 am »

Sheep
(I'm using lime green to indicate that I don't think antidote should be used, and to avoid a hammer)

As I've said before, I didn't actually believe he was a jester, but was interested in his response. I just take the entire quote because it's easier than surgically removing the parts that are most important. The jester stuff is pretty inconsequential in my vote.

If I may, I'd like to do just that (that is remove all mention of the jester role); please feel free to replace this with your own edit if this causes me to further misinterpret your case:
Zombie Urist: You're acting scummy enough, though. You come out with a vote on Griffionday with absolutely no reasoning behind it, then when asked to present your case you switch it. You've been noncommittal the entire game. What is your reasoning for this?
So this was a fairly last minute read on your part?  It sounds like your case is based around the weird voting he did the end of D2.  In other words you DIDN'T have much of a case on him leading into it, just his weird vote.  However if we go look at the post record we note that your "Are you a jester?" comment was much before then; but you don't present a case with that post....

A couple posts earlier still you gave use this:
Zombie Urist: If Tiruin isn't scum then ZU probably is, seeing as he jumped on the Tiruin (bandwagon? Not sure if it was or not) soon enough. His favourite word seems to be "meh." I don't remember this kind of apathy from him in previous games I've read.
-snip-
Despite not giving reasons for his reads, his top four scumpicks just happen to also be the four people with the most votes for them, excluding himself. Some sort of mass bandwagon going on here, maybe?
Ignoring the meta arguments (including the votes), we have two actual reasons for suspicion: divisiveness of other's prods on him, and a potential bandwagon.  But when I asked about your case you entirely forgot the bandwagoning thing, but left that his votes didn't match.  I'm sorry, but that's a bullshit reason: how is agreeing for the most part on who seems scummy with the exceptions of where you are personally poking at all a scum tell?  Also; how do you pay enough attention to the votes to be able to say that his reads are suspicious because they match who is being voted for at the time but not enough to know you were hammering?

Do you wish to explain again WHY you voted for Zombie Urist?

Tiruin - Explained above. Suspeced lying, etc.
Could you expand that etc. a bit?
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Toaster

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #962 on: April 30, 2013, 10:48:05 am »

Griff:
Sheep
(I'm using lime green to indicate that I don't think antidote should be used, and to avoid a hammer)

Unless my counting is terrible, he has two votes on him, and five is hammer.  I don't think you have to worry about hammering him yet.

Read on Hapah:
Leaning scum.  His ability claim is REALLY convenient: it's an ability that could not be used really well by scum and was claimed with relatively little prompting; but the nature of the ability he claimed makes it plausible that it would be claimed without a prompt (one-shot that's already on a clock for usefulness).  He also kept out of the case on ZU; and didn't even shoot one post at ZU to get clarification.  On the other hand I can't really fault any of his cases that he does have, and haven't really seen anything that I can press him on.  Lurking? He's been busy at work as he said.  His quietness about ZU? He had no posts in the main phase of that tunnel, so he can claim he was busy.

Truthfully the main issue with Hapah is that he seems to have distanced himself from the game and is just going around doing his own thing.

If the main reason you think he could be scum is active lurking, why did you put so many words and so much thought into the other bits?


Sheep:
Your case on me is a crap case. No, I'm not going to give any reasoning for why it is. I'll just say it's a crap case, and it should be good enough for people, right? Granted, there's not much wording around that vote, but that's not the only place I showed my suspicion. Also, it had a whole lot more reasoning than your previous two votes for me.

Okay, then I won't unvote you.  Not like I was likely to anyway, but hey.

I'll ask you what I asked Vector: Do you believe me when I say I didn't hammer on purpose?

No.  Said hammer is only the icing on the scum cake for you, though.


Vector:  Noted on cases.


Tiruin:  Why are you voting TolyK over Sheep?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #963 on: April 30, 2013, 10:59:57 am »

Unless my counting is terrible, he has two votes on him, and five is hammer.  I don't think you have to worry about hammering him yet.
I put ZU at L-2 and look what happened.

If the main reason you think he could be scum is active lurking, why did you put so many words and so much thought into the other bits?
Because that's how my mind analyzes things, and I felt I should put it out there if anyone wanted to take it and run with it.  It also felt like many of the people in the thread were accepting his ability-claim at face value, so I was trying to say why its a null read to me.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #964 on: April 30, 2013, 11:09:54 am »

Hapah: I may have asked this already but i have to ask, why should we trust you about Toaster? Although i myself do think Toaster is Town right now, i don't trust you much. Also, why do you appear to be active lurking? its not the weekend anymore and yes you could be busy but can you please find about half an hour to skim the thread and post?
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Toaster

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #965 on: April 30, 2013, 11:15:33 am »

Hapah's claim, like every claim, should be taken with a grain of salt.  I know that I'm town, but it is certainly conceivable that he is scum and never took any such action.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #966 on: April 30, 2013, 01:28:29 pm »

Vector, Griff, and Hapah:  Could each of you please give your reads on the other two?
I'm pretty sure the other two are town--Griffionday is obvtown for me, and although I'm admittedly bad at reading Hapah, I'm not really suspicious of him either.

@TolyK: Sorry, I just don't buy it.  You've been giving me a sour taste all game and the vote is staying put.
Sure thing. Obvtown - why?

Sure. I don't have many solid reads, though. From scum to town:

Tiruin - Explained above. Suspeced lying, etc.
TolyK - See below.
Vector? - Don't know if she should be here. Having trouble pinning her down, but gut says scummy.
Hapah - Seems to be activelurking slightly. Griffionday brought up a good point. Close to neutral.
Toaster - Basically neutral
NQT - Confirmed by Ranger, who I trust quite a bit. Haven't seen much suspicious from him.
RangerCado - Strange claims, but from his play I can't see him being scum.
Griffionday - Town. Hunts well, has made very few mistakes.
This had me thinking... Can you vote the same target twice?

Quote from: TheWetSheep
TolyK:
I brought out the lurkertracker, since I hadn't looked at it in a while, and found something interesting.
Your votes look like this:

Reply #152 - TheWetSheep
Reply #314 - Unvote WetSheep
Reply #860 - TheWetSheep
Reply #901 - Unvote

Unless it's malfunctioning, that's all(I don't have time to trawl through your posts to see). The first one is a RVS vote. The second was pressure on someone you had already poisoned. Why don't you vote more?
It ain't malfuntioning. Funny thing, it's all votes on you, huh?
As I already explained day one, and probably day two, I don't like throwing my vote around much, unless I'm pretty sure that the target is scum.
D1 I wasn't sure what goes where, so I held my vote back (except for the RVS vote, as you mentioned).
D2 I was busy getting info from NQT.
D3 is now.

Quote from: TheWetSheep
Also, why exactly are you suspicious of Griffionday?

If the next ones to look at are Griff, Ranger and Tiruin, why aren't you poking at them?
I ain't suspicious of Griff for any reason other than statistical, which I believe I explained before.
As for your second question, you do have a good point. But I'mma do that as soon as the mess settles down a bit more.

Quote from: TheWetSheep
Vector: Why did you put ZU at L-1 without mentioning it?

TolyK is now at L-1. Please don't hammer. (I voted him to prove my double-vote power, but I might as well vote someone who I find scummy)
... What? Explain the second part in the parenthesis...

(I'm using lime green to indicate that I don't think antidote should be used, and to avoid a hammer)
I approve of this way of indicating.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #967 on: April 30, 2013, 02:08:59 pm »

Durp.
I'd like to Extend as I will actually not be here tomorrow...
I'll try to get a post in a bit, however.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #968 on: April 30, 2013, 04:05:48 pm »

Obvtown because he's been constantly active, aggressive, on-point, and seems to be honestly trying to figure out what's going on.  I... have a really hard time seeing this as his first scum game.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Hapah

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #969 on: April 30, 2013, 08:58:34 pm »

Request Replacement. There's just no way I can keep up with my current schedule. These 12+ hours days suck, and it's going to be like this for the next two weeks.
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

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notquitethere

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #970 on: April 30, 2013, 09:17:18 pm »

Aw. I hope you don't get modkilled now  :(
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Hapah

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #971 on: April 30, 2013, 09:22:07 pm »

Yeah, it's a bummer. They didn't tell me the days were going to be this long when I signed up for field work or I wouldn't have joined this game in the first place.

I'll try to read all the questions addressed to me at least, but no promises.
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

Bored? Go read the EVE Chronicles.

notquitethere

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #972 on: April 30, 2013, 09:34:39 pm »

I understand sometimes life hands you melons and all you can do is make the best damned melonade you can.
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Toaster

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #973 on: April 30, 2013, 10:09:03 pm »

Insert joke about playing with melons here
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

TheWetSheep

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #974 on: April 30, 2013, 10:20:17 pm »

Tiruin:
TWS: You missed a whole lot of my question and answered the superficial parts.
Sorry. You mean these?

Firstly, you aren't proving anything by saying 'I believe she's lying' by just stating it out. There must be conclusive evidence in proving someone out on a lie. I'm currently near the top of your scum-list, WHY.
Do I really need to explain why I think you're lying again? I'll quote myself:

I think Tiruin is lying. The reason for this is that she did not mention the questions she said she forgot to post a single time, even though she said TolyK missing those questions was her main reason for voting him. I see no evidence to her having made those questions.

As you've seen, or probably derived, I've nothing to gain from lying at all - are you acting upon the idea of lying as defined in the BM or something else?
Does lying have a different definition in a BM than elsewhere? Lying = saying something that is not true.

(snip)
Also, why are you asking such? Claimed actions? What's your intention.
Fair enough. The question's purpose? The same as all questions; to try to reveal something scummy. This was my followup question. Why this question? Because a lot of people have claimed at least one action, and information is beneficial to town.
Uh huh. Judging by your intention, how would you reveal something scummy?
I'm not quite sure how to answer this question. You keep asking me to pressure you, to ask you questions. What's wrong with this one? I don't have a definite "this answer means Tiruin is scum" idea, but thought there was a chance.

Oh yes. I'm now your top pick, huh. Something made it rise? I think not, given your abstinence of saying why, or expounding on how I'm scummier than your pick before. Oh look at that, you missed me asking you of how you define lying -- not much there was for you to do but miss that question or evade it entirely, huh.
No, nothing made it rise, but my reads of others who I was suspicious of solidified(mostly Vector). I said "near the top" as a vague statement because my order of scumminess was vague. Not sure what you mean by the last part.

The only reasons on your case on me was lying. Why? Because of a post I missed. Because its in the past, and that you're deflecting on reason of 'because I stated such and such before so I don't have to repost it now.' I mean, can't you at least refine your posts (and use the correct pronouns for one)? So that means nothing's changed right?
You want me to restate all my arguments again? That's fine, but I get a bit tired of saying and re-saying stuff.

I feel like it's a bad thing to attribute my bad posts to tiredness and lack of time all the time, but that's definitely a factor. What do you mean about pronouns? Nothings changed? You mean relating to my case on you? Well, you haven't really said anything to make me believe you didn't lie. The only thing that made me question it was something I brought up, and you were quick to capitalize on it.

Given that your whole case on me is lying. Something of which:
> Already has the post in question down.
> Speaks about a one-time situation @ D1.
> In regard to such, speaks of me as town if not for that presumption of lying...which actually is moot given the context.
> Has not yet been defined and only inferred from the meaning of lying.
My case is lying? How?

First point: No idea what you mean.
Second point: You mean speaking about the situation in D1 that was the entire basis of my case on you? You bet I'll bring that up.
Third point: Why moot? And I've already said, not all facets of somebody's play have to be scummy for that person to be scummy. I know you're capable of playing a good scum game.
Fourth point: Yeah, I missed it.

Dodge me more, sheep. That wasn't me 'dismissing' it, it was me addressing it in all its entirety. I talked about it.
Quote
What I meant there was that there was nothing mentioned to TolyK though I thought I mentioned it to TolyK.

And to the question of that was all in it - that sounded more like "Was that the complete information?". Unsure how the singular-plural thing goes but that's how I thought it...
Meaning: I was aiming at the intention of your question there, but still you use this case as your sword against me.

You said the part regarding TolyK hadn't gone through in any of your posts. Later, you gave one post. It's pretty simple. Since I'm not really understanding you here, can you say concisely why that shouldn't be conclusive?

Do me a favor, expound on the bolded part in this spoiler.
I gave up my first heavy suspicion when convinced off it by Ford. I don't want that to happen again. I don't want to give up my case, even though others aren't buying it.

Griff:
As I've said before, I didn't actually believe he was a jester, but was interested in his response. I just take the entire quote because it's easier than surgically removing the parts that are most important. The jester stuff is pretty inconsequential in my vote.

If I may, I'd like to do just that (that is remove all mention of the jester role); please feel free to replace this with your own edit if this causes me to further misinterpret your case:
Zombie Urist: You're acting scummy enough, though. You come out with a vote on Griffionday with absolutely no reasoning behind it, then when asked to present your case you switch it. You've been noncommittal the entire game. What is your reasoning for this?
So this was a fairly last minute read on your part?  It sounds like your case is based around the weird voting he did the end of D2.  In other words you DIDN'T have much of a case on him leading into it, just his weird vote.  However if we go look at the post record we note that your "Are you a jester?" comment was much before then; but you don't present a case with that post....

A couple posts earlier still you gave use this:
Zombie Urist: If Tiruin isn't scum then ZU probably is, seeing as he jumped on the Tiruin (bandwagon? Not sure if it was or not) soon enough. His favourite word seems to be "meh." I don't remember this kind of apathy from him in previous games I've read.
-snip-
Despite not giving reasons for his reads, his top four scumpicks just happen to also be the four people with the most votes for them, excluding himself. Some sort of mass bandwagon going on here, maybe?
Ignoring the meta arguments (including the votes), we have two actual reasons for suspicion: divisiveness of other's prods on him, and a potential bandwagon.  But when I asked about your case you entirely forgot the bandwagoning thing, but left that his votes didn't match.  I'm sorry, but that's a bullshit reason: how is agreeing for the most part on who seems scummy with the exceptions of where you are personally poking at all a scum tell?  Also; how do you pay enough attention to the votes to be able to say that his reads are suspicious because they match who is being voted for at the time but not enough to know you were hammering?

Do you wish to explain again WHY you voted for Zombie Urist?
Why ignore meta arguments? That was a big reason. That's like saying about me, "well, if you ignore his hammer, he's not scummy at all!"

The reads correlating to scumpicks? It's the same thing as bandwagoning, but on a mass scale. It allows him to blend in. I mean, when someone lays down a bandwagon vote, you don't say, "well, it's not scummy since he agrees with the majority opinion".

Sorry, not enough time to compile my argument for ZU. There was someone who compiled everyone's cases on ZU, though, right? It should be there.(I'm rushing now)

Quote
Tiruin - Explained above. Suspeced lying, etc.
Could you expand that etc. a bit?
Well, the minimalizing of my case, for one. That stuff wasn't all that important, which is why I didn't name it outright. Maybe I shouldn't have put the "etc." there, but whatever.



And that's all I have time for. I'll answer the rest and ask some questions some other time. Sorry if I missed some stuff; please point it out if I did.
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