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[Captain Ford]

Extend. Maybe we can still get enough votes for one.

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Making an effort to fill in the blanks.

I think you're buddying Zrk2 and softballing the crap out of NQT.

If you mean buddying as in the scum strategy described on the mafiascum wiki, then you're a loony. I don't think Zrk2 would cut me any slack for what I did, and I don't see why I would bother trying to improve his chances of getting lynched.

NQT has just love-linked two players, and that makes them vulnerable if their identities are known. Given that all of NQT's reads were built in the process of choosing his targets, he can't really talk about them without telling us who he picked and why.

Ranger... your interaction with him is weak and noncomittal.

Yep.

(This post has been languishing for like 2 hours. I think it's time for me to just get it out the door)

[Griffionday]

Day ends in four and a half hours (barring extend).  I still think day one has been fairly exhausted, so I don't see a point to a second extend.  But I'll remove my opposition vote as there seem to be a lot of people who still want to catch up.

Revoke opposition to Extend.

Spoiler: Unofficial (LT) Votecount (click to show/hide)

Zrk2: Tiruin, Sheep, DS(?), Griffionday
Ford: Toaster
UI:    Ranger, Hapah
Tiruin: Hapah
Ranger: Zrk2, UI, NQT
NQT:  The Soldier(?), Vector, Zrk2, Toaster
Vector: UI
No vote: Ford, TolyK, NQT

Note: Most recent suspicion is recorded assuming it is later than the vote.

Zrk2:

I did not say a lynch would provide more information, just that any death will produce the same amount of information, all other things being equal. Other than that I see your point about actions and not just the NK. However speculation on actions during the night can often get WIFOMy because of the abundance of roles in play in this game.

But why are "all things" equal between a LaL lynch and an argumented lynch?

Implied pressure. You don't have to actually vote for someone for your vote to be threatening to them. Like robbing a bank by putting your fingers in your pocket and claiming it's a gun. If people believe you will vote for them they will act like you are already voting for them. IIRC.

You changed after Ford's defense of you.  Why were you so relived when Ranger and I shifted off of you?  I did say I'd be back if I wasn't satisfied.

Currently Ranger hasn't been up to much, so I don't have anything to add.

Nothing in his recent posts strike you as worth bringing our attention to?

Okay, very nearly to the same page here.  From your point of view; yes, town is guaranteed to lose a player, and if we're focusing on you that means that; yes we're not focused on the actual scum.  The thing is; however, the attention is not purely negative.  Gaining a rock-solid town read on someone is invaluable in that you can rely on that player to not purposely being feeding you unhelpful WIFOM (Ford I'm looking at you), and their targets are ones that you'll have a better idea of the reason behind the vote.  Likewise having a solid town read means your votes carry more weight (notice the swing that I seem to have caused against you) and means you'll have a better chance of keeping scum from slipping through your fingers.  It also means that bussers will tag along to your votes (Deathsword: start explaining), so you can find people to read that way as well.

Why does your philosophy seem to exclude the value of the town read and treats it instead like a read that only comes as non-scum?

You're still not answering this question (It was even linked to in one of the sections you quoted...)

You're still treating all attention to you as negative, which is only even slightly true the case in the case of a mafia member.

Everyone: 
Sorry about not having much more to add to the discussion right now, I hope the non-official vote count is slightly helpful.  But I have to get to my next class.

[Zrk2]

Zrk: You've been ignoring me for the last little while and yet your vote remains. Are you still suspicious of me or are you just thinking i'm the most useless here and should be lynched? If you are suspicious, do you have any new reasons for this or is it still the your old ones?

As I said in my last post you haven't done anything to rub me one way or the other recently.

I did not say a lynch would provide more information, just that any death will produce the same amount of information, all other things being equal. Other than that I see your point about actions and not just the NK. However speculation on actions during the night can often get WIFOMy because of the abundance of roles in play in this game.

But why are "all things" equal between a LaL lynch and an argumented lynch?

I was referring to a NK, not a lynch. Please pay attention.

Implied pressure. You don't have to actually vote for someone for your vote to be threatening to them. Like robbing a bank by putting your fingers in your pocket and claiming it's a gun. If people believe you will vote for them they will act like you are already voting for them. IIRC.

You changed after Ford's defense of you.  Why were you so relived when Ranger and I shifted off of you?  I did say I'd be back if I wasn't satisfied.

Because my lynch was no longer looking imminent. That would make anyone rest easier.

Currently Ranger hasn't been up to much, so I don't have anything to add.

Nothing in his recent posts strike you as worth bringing our attention to?

That is what I said.

Why does your philosophy seem to exclude the value of the town read and treats it instead like a read that only comes as non-scum?

You're still not answering this question (It was even linked to in one of the sections you quoted...)

That is more or less how I look at it. There is value in a town read but I can never find anyone that strikes me as especially scummy.

You're still treating all attention to you as negative, which is only even slightly true the case in the case of a mafia member.

I do. Votes on me always seem to multiply on me. That does have an impact on my play but I am working to counter it.

[Griffionday]

Zrk2

I did not say a lynch would provide more information, just that any death will produce the same amount of information, all other things being equal. Other than that I see your point about actions and not just the NK. However speculation on actions during the night can often get WIFOMy because of the abundance of roles in play in this game.

But why are "all things" equal between a LaL lynch and an argumented lynch?

I was referring to a NK, not a lynch. Please pay attention.

Even more confused now, a lynch and a NK produce the same amount of information?

Because my lynch was no longer looking imminent. That would make anyone rest easier.

True enough

That is what I said.

I was going to ask why you're still focused on him, but noted that you don't have any other real targets right now.  Fair enough.

That is more or less how I look at it. There is value in a town read but I can never find anyone that strikes me as especially scummy.

Anyone strike you as especially towny?

I do. Votes on me always seem to multiply on me. That does have an impact on my play but I am working to counter it.

You are getting MUCH better, but still feel one of the most scummy to me.

[Hapah]

PFP

Mod: Votecount, please.

(And a friendly reminder to everyone: remember to make your votes Bold and Red. Makes it easier for Wuba to find 'em)

[TheWetSheep]

Tiruin: Okay, I'm not sure how to take this alleged "phantom post". Can you recall what was in it and summarize for us? Also, does this mean your vote on TolyK was not a pressure vote?

I'm a bit skeptical. I'll have to reread your posts around that time and see if they make sense with your story.

Zrk2: You said you were re-evaluating your case on Ranger. Now you say that you haven't seen anything suspicious from him recently, and that your re-evaluation turned up nothing of note. Why is your vote still on him, then?

Toaster:

Beyond that, what Vector said.

Why are you echoing a question for NQT that he's already answered?

GriffionDay: Votes are more important than FoS's at this point. It would make more sense to put them in your votecount instead, right?

[Griffionday]

GriffionDay: Votes are more important than FoS's at this point. It would make more sense to put them in your votecount instead, right?

I had the time and decided to do both, because someone might be interested.  ...I'm not really sure what this question is asking.

[TheWetSheep]

Unvote Zrk2


Tiruin: I'm back from reading your posts like I said I would.

Two things make me disbelieve your claim. First:

TolyK: Get in here and post!

You didn't mention your own questions to him. Instead of saying something like "Get in here and answer my questions", you said something that could easily be, and probably was, just calling out a lurker. Now, this isn't very conclusive on its own. But your post after TolyK comes back is very incriminating:

TolyK: Right in your second paragraph, I detect a mixture of sarcasm, and trying to read too much on that little post Vector made. Why?

Tolyk

NQT, what do you think about there being quite a few people here who won't go the "traditional" way (i.e. newbies/foreigners/whoevertheybe)?

It spices things up a bit. I don't think their scum reads will be that different. Do you?

I am bad at reading scum, but books and barcodes are good enough for me.
More seriously, I personally do think they will be different. Example? Ranger going No-Lynch Plaza,

'Foreigners'? Pffyeahright. That's just biased, in the lightest sense of another word.

Whats so different with Ranger there? People do think along those lines, yes, so what makes it so different?

After that; Why do you doubt (read: straight out refuse) NQT's offer? What liabilities does it pose? Because you do say afterwards a nice "I think we should wait on it and posibly experiment with it."
 which really contradicts what you said there.

Judging by the votecount and what I've read into so far, probably Ranger or NQT, with a chance of Zrk. NQT due to his claim, though I think we should wait on it and posibly experiment with it. Ranger due to being "different" in his thoughts. Zrk due to the vote record.

...With a chance of Zrk due to the vote record.

Are you even reading into the cases brought on by people or just stating the superficial details? Do you even care where your vote goes?

-snip-

@TolyK: Judging by your words there, you paint NQT as scum, and yet your vote is...? Still on TWS for trivial reasons.

Not a single time do you mention any missed questions. You continue as normal. If, as you say, you were voting for him because he wasn't answering your questions, I'm fairly certain you would have mentioned them. Unless, of course, you didn't ask him any.


PPE: GriffionDay: Oh wait, right. Sorry, I thought you were listing the FoS's instead of the votes. I didn't look at that too carefully.

[Griffionday]

-snip on Tiruin-

Huh you bring up a good point, maybe I've not examined her posts as close as I should be (I'm ashamed to say). Well I've got two hours, I may as well go critically read her posts.

PPE: GriffionDay: Oh wait, right. Sorry, I thought you were listing the FoS's instead of the votes. I didn't look at that too carefully.

No worries

[Vector]

Extend.

I'm waiting, NQT.

[Griffionday]

Extend as we seem to have a 3-way tie.

[notquitethere]

I think the day is actually over- its gone 9pm Central. It's very early in the morning my-time, so I won't be able to do anything constructive now (or indeed before any deadline that ends at this time).

Toaster

There is zero reason this could not have been a vote, given you weren't voting to begin with. Why the kid gloves? Is it because you didn't want to be Vote Number Three on him? I bet it is.

I didn't think what he said was quite a hanging offense and this late in the day my vote would be hanging vote, that's all. He clearly meant I'd be in particular trouble if both lovers are killed and both flip town.

Anyone who's interested

As for my scum hunting or lack thereof- I'm hampered in pressing reads too hard given that I don't want to say too much about my lovers picks. But also, I've been quite busy with new work commitments* which has meant that I've had a lot of time on trains to read posts on my phone but little solid time to respond and do analysis. A lot of work I do in these games usually makes use of a spreadsheet of votes and so on, and I haven't had time for that yet. Most of all though, on Day One there really isn't anything concrete to talk about- it's all just talking about people talking. With no flips yet and lynch votes to examine or conversations to look at in light of flips, or people's night actions to discuss, I'm struggling to think of constructive ways to play this without adding to the noise. We need to end the day. Zrk2 simply to break any tie.

Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)

I test video games for a living and sometimes this can be very labour-intensive.

[TheWetSheep]

I'll throw a vote in for extend if it's not too late.

[Griffionday]

I'm FAIRLY sure we have 23 min to get the extend.  Problem is I'm not sure we've much more to say.