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[Griffionday]

Ranger:

Griff: Whats your take on  who appears to be the scummiest and who appears to be the towniest?  (lol, asked why i'm not questioning you right before i post.)

That read through was surprisingly painless.  I'm in no way 100% on my reads but here goes: scummiest would be Captain Ford, he seems to be absentmindedly dodging questions and not looking all that hard.  I don't know his schedual, so my read will likely change once he gets the chance  to answer the questions posed to him. Most townie would be Soldier, he seems to be fairly straightforward to read, and seems to be trying to hunt scum.

From BM:

Spoiler: On D1 No-lynches (click to show/hide)

I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.

Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.

A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.

Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),

Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.

So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.

Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.

also:

Code: [Select]

[br] will give you a line break.

Zrk2: please answer the question in the previous post.

Ford: You seem to have been distracted as of late in this game, where have you been?

[Tiruin]

I posed this question to Griff, I'll pose it to you Ranger:

Why do you think D1 = Mislynch?

I'm reluctant to vote or press others as i'm not a very assertive person.

Understandable, so what will you do with your vote? How will you use it to scumhunt? If you were to vote someone, who would you vote - who do you currently suspect after reading what had occurred the whole game, and why?

[...]i need to calm down.

Suggestion, try a BM when you're free (Re-read edit: well, you're in the current one so I'll just put here that you're reacting...really defensively. Yeah, your answers could come off as idiotic - to me, they come off as trying to save face and really trying hard to do whichever to focus...but it seems you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole.)

Chillax, bro. While you may have read that 'Mafia is srs bzns,' it shouldn't be that grating on your nerves. That part pokes me as nervous scum, or nervous newbie; the latter is moreof a null.

...And ready yourself to answer the above questions - add detail on why, please.


Griff

also:

Code: [Select]

[br] will give you a line break.

But...that's much like pressing enter- Oh. Now I see why. Heh, oops. Phone communication...

Next scummiest after Ford? If you can, reads on everyone?

[RangerCado]

TheWetSheep: If you were a third party what third party would you want to be? Why?

TolyK: What is your favourite town role? Scum role? Third party?

What is the purpose of these questions?

Getting people talking. Stimulating discussion. Seeing the mindset of how people approach the game. No matter what someone's outlook on a game is shaped by their role. By askingt questions like  this I am provoking from them comments on seemingly irrelevant matter and thus lowering their guard, giving me a better idea of what they actually are.

G'night all.

(not sure why the quote ended up here...) Okay, lets see if i have my head on straight.
 Day 1 mislynch is a common occurence for 2 reasons to me. Firstly that theres not much info to go off of so its hard to justify lynching anyone who isn't being dead weight
 Secondly, There are more Town than there are Mafia so even if we all agreed on someone to lynch, Day 1 has the highest likely hood of killing a townie instead.

 I believe in the morning i will use my vote to try and pressure Zrk. I have true suspicions of him (to me anyway) as he has avoided a couple questions from others. he may just not have seen them (as i sometimes do) but his statement here:(see above for reasons related to DS logic)  leads me to believe he's rolefishing. The way its worded just makes it seem that way so, Zrk why are you appearing to role fish? if this isn't your intention, could you rephrase what you said?
 sorry for not quoting how you suggested Tiruin, but posting on this thing is terrible. in a week a should have a better way to do this when i don't have access to a computer.
 I'll be back 10 am tomorrow. ciao!

[Griffionday]

Tiruin:

I posed this question to Griff, I'll pose it to you Ranger:

Why do you think D1 = Mislynch?

When did you ask me this?

Griff

also:

Code: [Select]

[br] will give you a line break.

But...that's much like pressing enter- Oh. Now I see why. Heh, oops. Phone communication...

Next scummiest after Ford? If you can, reads on everyone?

Zrk2 is next scummiest, as he still has yet to answer my question and has been focused on roles which I don't feel is more important for town than scum yet, he's dropped from first due to recent answering of questions though. 
TolyK would be next: He's been here, had fun, then left without actively hunting... I'm currently chalking it up to a play style difference between him and I though.
NQT, and Hapah are the beginning of my neutral reads both seem to be answering questions posed to them fairly well, but seem to be doing only very limited hunting.
You, Toaster, Vector, and UI I've no read on due too my being emotionally compromised when it comes to trying to see your actions in both lights.
Ranger I'm also putting as neutral, the newbie smokescreen is to thick for me to get an honest read yet.
Deathsword is a slight town read right now, he would be with NQT and Hapah, but he shifted townie due to his failed attempts to guide Ranger into proper scum hunting.
TheWetSheep is giving me a slightly town read.  He seems to not be comfortable slogging it out in RVS, hence his actions make more sense where NQT's and Hapah's do not as much.  He's also in his second or so RVS (I think, correct me if I'm wrong of course) so not being comfortable isn't a mafia read.

Thoughts on my reads?

[Griffionday]

Ranger:
Missed this the first time around:

its hard to justify lynching anyone who isn't being dead weight.

Who are being dead weight then?

[Hapah]

PPE: While you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. Screw it, I'm going to bed, lol. Post tomorrow.

As for the RVS period, it really is just to see if someone slips up at the start. we really have no evidence and a no lynch at the start could be much more beneficial then an actual lynch today. more on that after school.

I used to think the same, but Bookthras made a fairly convincing argument for D1 lynches in my first game when I brought it up. I'll see if I can dig it up. PPE: Got beat to it.

Griff

notquitethere: How do feel about being Ranger's pick for scum mate?

I feel warm and fuzzy inside. Ranger doesn't know that I've never won a game of mafia yet, no matter what team I'm on.

I'd say you've done fairly well in the games you've played, for what that's worth. You had me going in M&M.

Hapah: Refusing to answer is a sign of guilt, so I'm going to assume you are a wizard. And as we all know, all wizards are evil. Give me one good reason why you shouldn't be lynched.

Why are all wizards evil? What if I'm a Wizzard? Gandalf wasn't evil. And if you lynch me I'll take back my cheetos, you bastard.

I've never played with him before, and I'm interested in seeing how he thinks. Depending on his response, it may or may not lead somewhere.

I'd like to know what your results are, when you've got 'em.

Hapah: Would you ever claim as a Watcher? If so, when?

What's a Watcher do? I thought a Watcher was watch someone and see everyone who visits, but you called it a 3rd party.

[Tiruin]

Hapah: Would you ever claim as a Watcher? If so, when?

What's a Watcher do? I thought a Watcher was watch someone and see everyone who visits, but you called it a 3rd party.

*sigh*
Knew it

From this Mafia game

Alignment: Watcher
Wincon: You win when the game reaches Day [day_number].

PPE: While you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. Screw it, I'm going to bed, lol. Post tomorrow.

You had that reply tab open for more than two hours, didn't you?

Regardless, if you were scum, how feasible does claiming vigilante sound in response to the no roleflip idea? Would it or would it not increase your survivability?

Griff: Yeah...I thought I had asked you that in a previous post [RVS-ish]. Looking back, it wasn't in there so I guess its on part of my multi-tab check and question RVS point error.

Anyway, I see you're putting scumbags in a line due to their question-answer rate, right? What if Zrk2 answers all your questions, will that lower your suspicion on him? Because it seems like you're chalking up the scumlist from those who hadn't answered questions as opposed to how they answered their questions.

One thing on DS

shifted townie due to his failed attempts to guide Ranger into proper scum hunting.

Anyone can be helpful. Anyone with good intention towards the player, and not their alignment. Why is this a persuasive enough case to shift into the green?

[RangerCado]

Just wanted to see if i could mess with the flavor before school. (i pull cakes seemingly out of the walls) "Who wants cake? I got every kind!") Will post in about 4 hours time give or take a half hour with something more useful. Thanks Tiruin for the help and i hope i can trust you in this game 

[Tiruin]

Just wanted to see if i could mess with the flavor before school. (i pull cakes seemingly out of the walls) "Who wants cake? I got every kind!") Will post in about 4 hours time give or take a half hour with something more useful. Thanks Tiruin for the help and i hope i can trust you in this game 

Oooohhh goodness. Well, on how you can trust others: Either evaluate how they post - either from questions asked by you, or conversations with others. Then base your trust on that.

In-Mafia: We're all knife-at-throat people.
Out-Mafia/Mid to End-Game: Knives down, alliances forged.

That last line is pretty disarming tbh >.>

[Zrk2]

Zrk2:
I apologize for improperly formatting this the first time:

Because I didn't ask what your role was, I just wanted to know how the abundance of roles will influence your actions. If you're really worried about possibly giving away your role treat it as a hypothetical. Consider a variety of standard roles. Mention one shots. Give me a big long paragraph of supposition. I wait with bated breath.

The problem is I honestly don't know.  I have no standard meta (outside of quickly racking up most posts and gaining the fewest reliable reads), and am dealing with each day as it comes.  My Mafia history is rather bland; I only have personal experience with doctors and cops.  I've seen how other roles are used but until I see them played in a game that I'm in I won't have an adequate feeling for how they effect the game.  Additionally most of the games on Bay12 (read "all the games I've  read") have an abundance of roles, so I tend to see more roles as the norm rather than something that will change my play, likewise the roles being hidden doesn't change much for me either:

So to re-answer your earlier question:

Scumhunting: Not much change if any: I trust Webadict to provide us with a game that will not be balanced significantly differently than a normal game; or at the very least to be balanced fairly.  The primary difference is that the town will have more information to work with, as we have far more power roles than a normal game.  The downside I see is that claims are easier for scum to pull off.

Use of my role: Again I don't really know.  I mean the actions themselves would gain more signifigance but I'm not convinced that the targeting would change, so unless you want to know how I'd target specific roles I can't really answer this.


The primary reason why I find your question suspicious is that as a new player "change" is absolutly meaningless. As such, the question becomes about my initial reads of various roles, which is limited to a small group.  To my mind this is role-fishing.  Could you further elaborate why that question is useful to ask a new player?

Please address the question.

I'm trying to get a feel for how you approach the game. I want to know how you believe you would react to certain situations. I'm trying to see how you work, how you think, what influences you. I don't need to know your role, I just need to know what influences your decisions, thus it is not rolefishing.

Zrk2:

Here, you know that I didn't post after your question...right? That was me poking (read: stating observation) at your statements while stating what I thought of it, nothing more.

Why'd you ask me something, prodding it, and saying I didn't answer it yet when I...didn't actually answer it in between the question and the prod?

I see. My apologies. It had been over a page and several hours, so I quoted it in case you had missed it.

Crown self.

Quite the Napoleon Complex you have there.

No no, Dakarian Edition.  Webadict Edition. . . did not turn out well.

I don't have time to read the whole thread. What happened there?

Zrk2: please answer the question in the previous post.

I presume you mean the one I just did?

I believe in the morning i will use my vote to try and pressure Zrk. I have true suspicions of him (to me anyway) as he has avoided a couple questions from others. he may just not have seen them (as i sometimes do) but his statement here:(see above for reasons related to DS logic)  leads me to believe he's rolefishing. The way its worded just makes it seem that way so, Zrk why are you appearing to role fish? if this isn't your intention, could you rephrase what you said?

I think I covered that earlier. I don't want to know your role, I want to know how you react to different situations. Anything else?

Anyone have a link to the lurkertracker for this thread?

[Tiruin]

The link will always lead to the page...I guess the lurkertracker notes are loaded on-page.

...

Get the Crown from Vector and Crown Self.

[Teneb]

Two posts above you:

3. Your vote on Vector...isn't much of anything for her to answer to. Dude, its a flavor-based question. Flavor is what we use as a term for what the Moderator adds in his posts for Fun Details. Why do you want your vote on Vector...if it's purely about flavor? Aren't you going to poke at anyone else at the moment?

Ok. so they are similar. As you may have noticed, there are other question's I've asked Ranger, not just that one.

More later.

[webadict]

Tiruin conjures up some paper. He's a really exciting person sometimes.

At the same time, Vector exerts her queenliness by placing the crown on her head. Urist Imiknorris sneers at her. Tiriuin, suddenly realizing he's been outdone, throws the paper and steals Vector's crown. Vector simply looks at him and says, "Give me the crown." Tiruin hands it back, disappointed.

RangerCado, meanwhile, puts on a chef cap and bakes up a few cakes from the wall. Because when you've got magic, doing pointless mundane activities gets important things done!

Vote Count
------------------------
Captain Ford - Griffionday,
Deathsword -
Griffionday - Zrk2,
Hapah - Urist Imiknorris, TheWetSheep,
notquitethere - The Soldier,
RangerCado - Deathsword, Vector,
The Soldier - Toaster,
TheWetSheep - TolyK,
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Tiruin,
Urist Imiknorris - notquitethere,
Vector -
Zrk2 - Captain Ford, RangerCado,
No Lynch -

Not Voting - Hapah,

8 To Hammer. Day Ends Monday at 9 PM Central.

[notquitethere]

EVERYBODY CHECK DIS

I've got a one shot magic power that allows two people (not myself) to talk to each other in private for the rest of the game. I want all interested parties to say who they'd like to talk to and why. Whoever gives me the best reason gets it. Say something quick as I'm going to allocate some time on Saturday!

FAQ
Why are you doing this in public? This way I can learn more about people and their priorities as well as more effectively use my power.
Are there any strings? No strings attached.
What happens if you don't deliver? It would mean I've been day-blocked, which shouldn't even be a thing.

[Griffionday]

Zrk2:

I presume you mean the one I just did?

Yes, thank you.

I'm trying to get a feel for how you approach the game. I want to know how you believe you would react to certain situations. I'm trying to see how you work, how you think, what influences you. I don't need to know your role, I just need to know what influences your decisions, thus it is not rolefishing.

Alright, fair enough.  Why did you choose to pose a rather open ended question rather than more concrete scenarios?

Tiruin

I see you're putting scumbags in a line due to their question-answer rate, right?

Answer rate and impressions gained by how they're answering/hunting.  The problem I've been having is a matter of "Their play-style is significantly different than mine"=/="They must be scum" but it reads that way to me currently. 

What if Zrk2 answers all your questions, will that lower your suspicion on him?

Yes it did, I still dislike the question and will continue to poke him about it, but I now I see his behavior as less scummy than TolyK's.

One thing on DS

shifted townie due to his failed attempts to guide Ranger into proper scum hunting.

Anyone can be helpful. Anyone with good intention towards the player, and not their alignment. Why is this a persuasive enough case to shift into the green?

I have a pretty much true neutral read on DS otherwise; he's been less active than I like, but I feel has dealt with the interactions as he's been called to.  Now then: Ranger and DS can't both be scum, or else I presume Ranger would have been taken aside in chat and given more advice on how to play well and probably ignored in game.  Thus if DS is scum he's been helping the town by improving one of our weaker players (not to say the Ranger is confirmed town, just that he is in this scenario).  Now I'm not saying this is impossible or even unlikely, however it is slightly less likely that DS is town and trying to make himself useful.

And I think that's what my reads all boil down to right now: How useful has this person been (tried to be) to the town's game?  Yeah it's easy to fake, yeah it'd be REALLY easy to play me into believing something that is completely a lie.  But I don't have a better criteria right now other than "my gut leans this way", and considering my lack of experience my gut needs to be checked by something else. 

How would you define the criteria you use for getting reads and ranking them during this phase of the game?

NQT
Any of the more experience players who would be interested in helping me improve my game.  Yes; I know this is a perfect opportunity for a scum to blindside me, but you've seen my reads: I'm not really that happy with my confidence of any of my town reads.