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Author Topic: Clout: Round One, Turn 3 - The Philosopher King  (Read 13851 times)

Emral282

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 02:41:03 pm »

Well Hegemony is an Oligarchy but better and Plutocracy effectively gets what Corperations get + more.
Also if I'm reading it right Technocracy is a worse Stratocracy.
Also a Tribal Plutocracy looks hilariously broken, someone should try it out.
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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 03:33:24 pm »

I don't think Hegemony is all that broken. Nobody likes the extremes, and hegemony happens to sit exactly in the middle.

Tribal plutocracy does seem broken and doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why are tribes better at making money than organized financial systems?
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Emral282

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 04:26:23 pm »

It's not that I think Hegemony is broken, but it does have every single bonus that Oligarchys have as well as being more stable and having a cheaper military.
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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 04:30:08 pm »

Good point. I think you should jack up PC percentage for oligarchies.
 
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Ardas

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 04:52:01 pm »

Hegemony could use toning down, and plutocracy is pretty OP.
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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 04:55:00 pm »

Plutocracy is fine. For the cost of 25% I can gain no unrest upon construction of more infrastructure with Democracy and gain stability. I see that as fair
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Ardas

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 05:01:53 pm »

As your build proves it, stack enough economy and you can get rid of any unrest and instability with money. Plutocracy just enables such builds and it simply asks to be stacked with stuff like hegemony.
It breaks the game and removes any challenge whatsoever.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 05:03:51 pm by Ardas »
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Urist_McDrowner

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 05:31:49 pm »

Look at how much PC I have though. You can just get more done faster than I can Ardas.

All builds have weaknesses. It is the player's job to minimize those weaknesses and his opponent's job to exploit them.
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Iituem

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 12:44:52 am »

Look at how much PC I have though. You can just get more done faster than I can Ardas.

All builds have weaknesses. It is the player's job to minimize those weaknesses and his opponent's job to exploit them.

And it's the game designer's job to ensure that the strengths and weaknesses of builds are comparable in magnitude so that they favour a variety of playing styles.  I've created a broken game, now let me explain why that's not fun and why I'm going to be doing a fair bit of nerfing before game start.

Spoiler: Lengthy Bit (click to show/hide)

That all said, let's take another look at these balance options.  I think the actual Resources/Infrastructure system isn't too broken right now, so I don't plan on changing that (I may or may not tweak with Peacekeeping using Might later).  Our main concern is the governments and power bases.

Spoiler: Governments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Power Bases (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sample Faction (click to show/hide)

There we go.  I'm reasonably happy with these, so we can go with them for now.  You may wish to change your governments based on the updates; if so, just edit your sheet and post to say that you have.

On another note, welcome aboard Ghaz and Ardas.  Two slots left!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 12:56:14 am by Iituem »
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

Emral282

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 02:22:44 am »

EDIT: I READS GUD
My new faction will be as so:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Iituem

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2013, 07:38:20 am »

Works fine for me, Emral.  I'm busy tidying house at my flat (heading back up north to my parents' for a while) so we'll look at starting this later on today.  Unless anyone else signs up, I'll run with four players.  Can I get a quick confirmation from Urist, Ardas and Ghaz that they want to stick with their current government types and Infrastructure allocations?
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

Ghazkull

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 07:56:40 am »

I am tempted to synergize Empire with Kleptocracy. 2 Might per 1 Wealth seems a nice exchange although i dislike that i can't expand peacefully, though with the increased looting i could negate the increased cost for building. On second thought nope, its Economically terrible stuff.

Hegemony seems like a nice choice with reduced upkeep but it seems to me that its 20% less Clout is really crippling in the beginning. A Kleptocracy needs to war constantly(thats at least my thoughts to that) to grow with the same speed as other Countries do through influence and Wealth. Thus Hegemony has to be thrown out of the window due to its lack of PC. Thus only Monarchy and Autarchy remain as obvious choices...Monarchy making Units far cheaper. Although Oligarchy seemed intriguing, with the idea behind it to destabilize Countries before raiding them, i think its taking to long to pay off. Besides i am more the Sledgehammer guy and less the Surgeon.

Jarldom of Finster
ruled by it's Jarl, these hard men live from trade and raiding

Government: Monarchy
Primary Power Base: Kleptocracy
5 Economic Infrastructure
4 Military Infrastructure
1 Social Infrastructure

40% Discount on Might Recruitment
Double Income from Raiding



4 Wealth, 10 Might

Allied Factions: (i still didn't get how that one works out) The Pankhaganate of Yon'daer, the Free City of Higgs
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Ardas

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 07:59:18 am »

I'm happy with monarchy and aristocracy. Army production is always good in my books, although I won't be an economic powerhouse.

E: I am just wondering, how some of the more complicated social systems in industrial era like fascism or communism can be designed with current government selection. I suppose its doable in principle.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 08:03:46 am by Ardas »
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Iituem

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2013, 08:00:39 am »

Allied NPC factions are literally small NPC nations or entities with less Inf than you do.  So long as you don't piss them off too badly, they'll contribute Might or Wealth when you're under attack in expectation that you'll do the same.  They might intervene on your side in wars of aggression, but will usually expect a cut of the plunder if they do.

They also start one step closer to union (i.e. grabbing all their stuff through careful diplomacy).  A faction has to be allied before it can be annexed.
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

Urist_McDrowner

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Re: Clout: A Political Game [4/6 Slots]
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2013, 10:17:14 am »

I'm at a loss for what to do. On the one hand, I love the idea of a plutocratic hegemony, but on the other, that's a pretty staggering opportunity cost. Plutocracy was mega-nerfed. The only playable choice is Aristocratic Hegemony for the nation concept I had in my head. My distribution remains the same.
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