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[Quartz_Mace]

Plate is pretty common in the movies, but not the books I guess. Common enough to be standard issue, even.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is this just an artistic decision? Is their equipment described in the books? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was artistic decision. You have to admit, though, if there was plate armor in Middle Earth, that looks pretty darn good.

[Deon]

My main intention to include plate armor here was the gameplay reasoning (and my own artistic freedom since it's now built on a totally different game basis).

You can already kill and be killed very easily in DF.
In Books the important characters are protected by plot armor. Boromir takes a lot of arrows and manages to call his horn, both in books and in movies. In DF he would get shot in the head in an instant.

In the game you want yourself or some of your dwarves to be an important character too. However there's no plot armor, so they need some real armor if you want them to survive dozens of uruks with crossbows or any kind of megabeast.

On the bright side, only dwarves have a good plate armor.
All other races wear breastplates, which only cover torso, so a "plate" armor in this mod actually looks like this:


I am also quite surprised that this discussion revived the mod, it was laying without attention for quite a while, no idea why. I would expect more people to be interested in LOTR version of DF .

[Floppypig]

My main intention to include plate armor here was the gameplay reasoning (and my own artistic freedom since it's now built on a totally different game basis).

You can already kill and be killed very easily in DF.
In Books the important characters are protected by plot armor. Boromir takes a lot of arrows and manages to call his horn, both in books and in movies. In DF he would get shot in the head in an instant.

In the game you want yourself or some of your dwarves to be an important character too. However there's no plot armor, so they need some real armor if you want them to survive dozens of uruks with crossbows or any kind of megabeast.

On the bright side, only dwarves have a good plate armor.
All other races wear breastplates, which only cover torso, so a "plate" armor in this mod actually looks like this:


I am also quite surprised that this discussion revived the mod, it was laying without attention for quite a while, no idea why. I would expect more people to be interested in LOTR version of DF .

butbutbut warfare in middle earth is based on northern european warfare from around 800 1100 and mail should be that plot armour it can take a full on axe blow without a link being broken but it should require around 9 bars to make

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Umm the point was that chai mail can't take piercing attacks for crap.
The only way that guy took so many arrows would have either been plate armor or him being ungodly pain resistant.

[Deon]

My main intention to include plate armor here was the gameplay reasoning (and my own artistic freedom since it's now built on a totally different game basis).

You can already kill and be killed very easily in DF.
In Books the important characters are protected by plot armor. Boromir takes a lot of arrows and manages to call his horn, both in books and in movies. In DF he would get shot in the head in an instant.

In the game you want yourself or some of your dwarves to be an important character too. However there's no plot armor, so they need some real armor if you want them to survive dozens of uruks with crossbows or any kind of megabeast.

On the bright side, only dwarves have a good plate armor.
All other races wear breastplates, which only cover torso, so a "plate" armor in this mod actually looks like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am also quite surprised that this discussion revived the mod, it was laying without attention for quite a while, no idea why. I would expect more people to be interested in LOTR version of DF .

butbutbut warfare in middle earth is based on northern european warfare from around 800 1100 and mail should be that plot armour it can take a full on axe blow without a link being broken but it should require around 9 bars to make

The DF does not work that way. If you want a cutting attack to inflict blunt wound, that won't work... Also there's no -quality-, =quality=, +quality+ etc in the real life, at least it does not work like in DF (where material suddenly becomes godly), so you have to adapt.

Trust me, I am not new to DF modding, so I try to stay close to canon but keep the game playable and Fun, so it would be a mod other people may enjoy. Some elements have to be dropped due to modding limitations, some elements have to be modified.

[SalmonGod]

Umm the point was that chai mail can't take piercing attacks for crap.
The only way that guy took so many arrows would have either been plate armor or him being ungodly pain resistant.

People are quite resilient if they really want to be.  You have to damage heart or brain to put somebody down immediately, and lung or major artery to do so quickly.  Otherwise, a seasoned warrior of Boromir's stature would be able to fight through quite a lot.  Especially if he believed that he had just fucked up big-time in the final struggle for the fate of his world, and felt driven to make up for it.  There are real-life examples of people getting shot all to hell and fighting through it.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I know
But the number of heavy, close range arrows had to at least pierce one of his lungs if he was in chain mail.

[Quartz_Mace]

Umm the point was that chai mail can't take piercing attacks for crap.
The only way that guy took so many arrows would have either been plate armor or him being ungodly pain resistant.

People have been shot point blank with shotguns and only realized they've been shot in hindsight. The adrenaline rush of a fight usually overrides pain.

He was shot by poor quality arrows, from a poor quality bow, most likely in non-vitals. Arrows take a long time to kill people that have been shot with them, and quite often people could survive one or two arrows (to non-vitals) if the bleeding is stopped and they get medical attention.

By "many arrows", I think Tolkien meant like 2 or 3 with 1 to a vital organ or some such. I'd imagine you could survive that for a minute or two and be able to talk before you die. The man wasn't a walking pincushion.

About plate, if he was in full steel plate, the arrows probably couldn't have penetrated, and if they did not very far, so they wouldn't have been any problem at all. Sharp arrows can bounce off of a flat wooden fence head on (I'm an archer and have seen this first-hand), and could easily bounce off of tempered steel.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

(Cool, I didnt know there were other archers on the forums. Though I'm competition shooter and not a real archer.....)

Many could also easily mean 10 and if he were in plate armor with ten shallow arrow penetrations that could cause some nasty damage, also the guy shooting him was point blank with a powerful (sure poor quality) bow. Even poor arrows can be powerful at point blank

[SalmonGod]

also the guy shooting him was point blank with a powerful (sure poor quality) bow. Even poor arrows can be powerful at point blank

Only in the film version.  In the book:

Then Boromir had come leaping through the trees. He had made them fight. He slew many of them and the rest fled. But they had not gone far on the way back when they were attacked again, by a hundred Orcs at least, some of them very large, and they shot a rain of arrows: always at Boromir. Boromir had blown his great horn till the woods rang, and at first the Orcs had been dismayed and had drawn back; but when no answer but the echoes came, they had attacked more fiercely than ever. Pippin did not remember much more. His last memory was of Boromir leaning against a tree, plucking out an arrow; then darkness fell suddenly.

I imagine Boromir was wearing the best armor possible to be suitable for traveling.  And I imagine he handled the skirmish masterfully, protecting his vitals as he fought.  Plus, this is Tolkien, where heroic characters of significant lineage could push themselves beyond human limitations.  He was of Numenorean descent, the same as Aragorn but more distant.  I envision him overwhelmed slowly, pincushioned by a large force of mooks.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

The book makes it sound like there were a lot more arrows than the movie depicted

[Putnam]

The DF does not work that way. If you want a cutting attack to inflict blunt wound, that won't work... Also there's no -quality-, =quality=, +quality+ etc in the real life, at least it does not work like in DF (where material suddenly becomes godly), so you have to adapt.

Material doesn't improve at all with quality... just coverage, AFAIK.

[SalmonGod]

The book makes it sound like there were a lot more arrows than the movie depicted

Yeah... you really can't expect anything from the film to be very representative of the book.  Most of Fellowship is pretty good, but past that very little of any of the films, LotR or Hobbit, is very faithfully translated.  Even where the core plot points are the same, the details make for a completely different style and presentation.

And this is why I resent the films so much... because they will probably muddy every discussion I will ever have with anyone about anything Tolkien for eternity.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Ya I hated what they did to the hobbit.
Largest problem being that the shortest book in the series was given three movies while the other much longer ones were only given one each

[Quartz_Mace]

The book makes it sound like there were a lot more arrows than the movie depicted

Yeah... you really can't expect anything from the film to be very representative of the book.  Most of Fellowship is pretty good, but past that very little of any of the films, LotR or Hobbit, is very faithfully translated.  Even where the core plot points are the same, the details make for a completely different style and presentation.

And this is why I resent the films so much... because they will probably muddy every discussion I will ever have with anyone about anything Tolkien for eternity.

Have you seen the latest Hobbit movie? It's complete crap. At least the Lord of the Rings movies were still good.