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[Jimmy]

Out of compassion for the families already being put through intense emotional stress, the Australian government has allowed these children to remain with their families instead of being sent into foster care or state institutions, which would ordinarily be the case when their parents are detained after breaking the law. If you believe it would be better to separate them in order to preserve the rights of the children as outlined in the human rights charter, feel free to say so.

[Osmosis Jones]

Anecdote time?

Spoiler: Here's mine (click to show/hide)

My grandparents were Polish refugees during/immediately after WWII, who they fled to Australia. The country having been through a war, they were sent to where they were needed; my grandmother to a cannery in Mooroopna, Victoria, my grandfather to a cane plantation in Queensland.

As soon as he could, my grandad moved back to Mooroopna to be with his wife, as well as a large community of Polish, German (primarily Jewish), and various other eastern european refugees.

So we had a bunch of refugees fleeing war/persecution, coming to Australia. They came with little more than the clothes on the back. They eventually ended up living in large communities of non/poor-english speaking people.

Despite this, they loved this country. Despite living in primarily european neighbourhoods, they took part in community events and integrated well into the town and the culture. Despite raising their three kids speaking Polish at home; my dad, my uncle, and my aunt are pretty well quintessential aussies, right down to the one-eyed support of their favourite footy team. Despite arriving with nothing, they worked hard and bought their own land and built their own house, in which my grandmother still lives.

They became part of this country.

Sure, screen the refugees, but don't just lock them up with no hope of anything. Send them to rural towns that need the population and the workers (I can guarentee there's plenty). Give them something to do, a sense of having contributed to the country, and they'll become part of it. If you just lock them up and throw away the key, all you do is build resentment and hatred among them, their families, and many that share similar culture or circumstances.

[Sheb]

They rioted to force the government to do something with them. Making trouble is only their only hope of anything, otherwise politicians are more than happy to have them stuck out of sight forever.

[Reudh]

Anecdote time?

Spoiler: Here's mine (click to show/hide)

My grandparents were Polish refugees during/immediately after WWII, who they fled to Australia. The country having been through a war, they were sent to where they were needed; my grandmother to a cannery in Mooroopna, Victoria, my grandfather to a cane plantation in Queensland.

As soon as he could, my grandad moved back to Mooroopna to be with his wife, as well as a large community of Polish, German (primarily Jewish), and various other eastern european refugees.

So we had a bunch of refugees fleeing war/persecution, coming to Australia. They came with little more than the clothes on the back. They eventually ended up living in large communities of non/poor-english speaking people.

Despite this, they loved this country. Despite living in primarily european neighbourhoods, they took part in community events and integrated well into the town and the culture. Despite raising their three kids speaking Polish at home; my dad, my uncle, and my aunt are pretty well quintessential aussies, right down to the one-eyed support of their favourite footy team. Despite arriving with nothing, they worked hard and bought their own land and built their own house, in which my grandmother still lives.

They became part of this country.

Sure, screen the refugees, but don't just lock them up with no hope of anything. Send them to rural towns that need the population and the workers (I can guarentee there's plenty). Give them something to do, a sense of having contributed to the country, and they'll become part of it. If you just lock them up and throw away the key, all you do is build resentment and hatred among them, their families, and many that share similar culture or circumstances.

I could take Osmo's anecdote and replace Poland with Holland, and it's the same for my family.

[alexandertnt]

1: Once they settle there, and of course by the regular definition of normal australian, you assume they will have no problems that will unsettle them when they move here. Nothing worth getting excited about. They'll just be incredibly content, and they'll never have to speak up at all ever again. Nope nope nope.
2: Explain to me how I was wrong in how faulty the logic was. Rioting advances no causes of theirs and only caused trouble for the whole system.
3: See above. We've gone over how 2nd generation immigrants is where shit really hits the fan In previous threads.
4: Because they are willing to go through legal channels?

Also, state a better solution than camps with very good living conditions in comparison to their old lives. Please, I'd love to hear it.

1. I assumed no such thing. Where did I assume this?
2. Your strawmen are strawmen because you made up their logic on the spot, without a shread of evidence to support your immigrants model of logic. You have also dumped your logic on all immigrants indiscriminately. Their cause is generally to be noticed, as they feel they have been ignored (their cause is not to "cause the government millions in damage", for example. That silly). With that in mind, it actually has advanced their cause.
3. Whats this about 2nd generation immigrants? Were we not talking about allowing potential 1st generation immigrants? i.e. the ones in the detention centers. Ontop of that, you missed my point: not all Muslims want Shairah law (thats why "will" is in bold).
4. Because boats in particular have been heavily politicised. Illegal immigrants come by planes too...
5. So would I. You werent suggesting a strawmen where I was implying that all the camps should just be torn down and absolutely anyone can come in without any restriction or control, were you?

My orginal argument was to give better legal access to Australia, followed by my attempts to demonstrate immigrants are not an amorphous blob of "Them" which just wont "shut up" and would cause random riots, along with demonstrating the abhorrence of statements like "Biting the hand that feeds you".

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I'm so sick of this "debate". It doesn't matter what you think of asylum seekers, the fact of the matter is that asylum seekers make up such a tiny portion of 'illegal immigration" that it's completely irrelevant to discuss. Add to this that the only way you could ever "stop the boats" is to stabilise the whole region and therefore stop the major factors pushing peoples to migrate.
All these half-measures and propaganda is nothing more than pissing away money to play partisan politics and pandering to the rising sentiment of xenophobia in the Australian population. Putting ads on Australian television isn't going to magically stop people smugglers especially when they're considered a symbol of hope and even roguish heroes in some foreign culture circles.

Obviously you still need to have some form of monitoring and some detention to stop both rare dangerous criminals and diseases from entering the populace. This however can easily be done either onshore or offshore in Australian territory rather than bullying less developed nations into holding our burden by threatening to decrease aid and support.
There is no evidence that asylum seekers find it harder to assimilate than any other immigrant. Cultural and linguistical aid has come a long way since the Cabramatta ghetto dibarcal.

This is nothing more than scapegoating a population to mask both government's ineptitude. Australia has had a proud tradition of accepting asylum seekers that was only truly poisoned in the Howard years. Making steps back towards the White Australia Policy is not going to help us perform in the international spotlight and I'm sure the UN is going to love us going back on our agreed refugee obligations.
Australia should grow the fuck up and act like the beacon of democracy it claims to be. 

On a side note I really recommend people to check out the minor parties in the coming election. Australia could do with a political shake-up after decades of stagnation and populism. I'm personally advocating the Pirate Party because copyright reform and evidence based policies gets my dick hard, they're also competent and aren't ruled by a Cult of Personality like our dear ol' Wikileaks party.

[Scoops Novel]

On a side note I really recommend people to check out the minor parties in the coming election. Australia could do with a political shake-up after decades of stagnation and populism. I'm personally advocating the Pirate Party because copyright reform and evidence based policies gets my dick hard, they're also competent and aren't ruled by a Cult of Personality like our dear ol' Wikileaks party.

More on all of that. Incidentally, why the "Pirate Party" if you wish to be taken seriously before the unimpressed are all dead, and even then?

[GlyphGryph]

I'm pretty sure he didn't name it. But it's mostly because Pirate Bay was the one to start that political ball rolling, and there are many places where they certainly ARE taken seriously nowadays - it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

The reason for the name is on the FAQ. It neglects to say that the Pirate movement is an international one with it's name route from a Swedish think tank called Piratbyran which was created to combat the Swedish Anti-Piracy Bureau.
Like Piratbyran the movement is independent of the Pirate Bay but since it supports non-commercial file sharing they find each other close allies.

Spoiler: FAQ (click to show/hide)

Then why call yourselves the Pirate Party?

Our name might seem silly at first, but you have to remember everyone has been called a “pirate” for the last few decades. The movie studios and recording companies have placed their propaganda in front of every DVD you’ve legitimately purchased or movie you’ve watched at the cinemas. We’ve been told over and over that home taping on to cassettes would kill the radio, that recording a TV show on to the VCR would bring an end to free-to-air TV or sharing an MP3 music song with a friend will cause the end of musician’s careers, the list goes on, but the truth is we were misled.

We in the Pirate Party have simply decided that if sharing a love for culture, knowledge and information with our friends and family makes us pirates, then that’s what we are and we’re proud of it. We’ve adopted the very term intended to demonise an entire generation for the completely natural impulse to share discoveries with those around us. We’ve claimed the pirate name in the fight for a free, open and renewed democracy in Australia, we hope you’ll join us.

I don't usually talk about politics and in particular political allegiances so I'm not really sure what I meant to say.

[Scoops Novel]

I don't usually talk about politics and in particular political allegiances so I'm not really sure what I meant to say.

You were born to it . It sounds like they have a lot of good things going for them, but the issue which the name is based on seems trivial, if not terrible, to focus on, not least because of the ease of circumvention though I'm well aware of the state of copyright and am advocating in your favor blah. It does seem to be a better tact for naming a party though. You've avoided choosing an amorphous easily abused name, you don't seem overly glorious nor optimistic, and you're not named seriously either for what that's worth.
I'd like to hear more about their policies, why they haven't or wont be bought off, their likelihood of doing well out of the election, how they stack up to their competitors, and why you support them.

I'd also like to hear more about the wikileaks party.

[XXSockXX]

Don't know how the Pirates are doing in Australia, but they have been somewhat successful in Europe. They're in the Swedish parliament and in the EU parliament for example.
They did well in some state elections in Germany and got into several state parliaments. However in the last year or so they have been mostly occupied with infighting, so it's save to say that they're not going to make it into federal parliament in September.
They're mostly running on freedom of information and anti-surveillance issues, though the local ones I know are mostly animal rights activists.

[Dutchling]

Animal right activists? Well there goes my vote.

[Reudh]

So, this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdU3ooAZSH8

Makes me happy.

[alexandertnt]

Animal right activists? Well there goes my vote.

Whats inherently wrong with animal rights activists?

[Edmus]

So, this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdU3ooAZSH8

Makes me happy.

Okay, my respect for Mr Rudd has increased dramatically.