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[kingfisher1112]

~Snipped for size

Larger game? Do you mean roos or camels? Both are easily taken down with a single shot with a bolt action. I know this because I have been out roo shooting with professionals. The kind that take this shit seriously. 'If you weren't making head shots, you weren't doing it right' serious. None of this 'Oh I'll just buy a bigger gun and pump in more bullets!' shit. It was one shot one kill. There is no game that requires an automatic.
You want to go hunting? Learn to shoot correctly.

If there is jam that isn't strawberry jam, tell me, what do you call this jar of strawberry jam? Do you even understand how association fallacy works?


You know there are two things I find very immoral here.
The first is the assumption that your hobby is more valuable than others health and well being. We know that the tighter the gun control, the less criminals can get hold of them. The more power the police have to stop crime. The less exposure the mentally ill have to fire arms. This is an objective truth. You can look at gun control in different countries and see how tighter control = less crime. It doesn't matter how much you want to shoot a machine gun, it is just a juvenile fetish compared to the lives it would cost.
The second is the assumption that gun rights is the most important issue any party has to offer. When a party has so much bad policy about things like marriage, a broadband scheme, green energy and a host of others, why is gun laws the trump card? Would you fuck over many people just so you can get a hard one over a more expensive gun?

You know what? How can i take you seriously when you bring up ' HURR DURR YOU GET ERECTIONS OVER GUNS'
It's just fucking annoying. It's discrimination and a negative stereotype. Quit using it.
Once more, getting rid of the national curriculum is a good thing. It's the most important thing to me in my life at this time. The broadband scheme won't even affect me because the Nation's cash cow always comes last, same with green energy. Gun laws are important to me. Getting head shots can be difficult, and even then, semiautos. Miss? Fire again!
So Britain, with it's high impact Gun Control laws is a safe haven with so little crime. Once more, gangs, drugs, and mental health is the issue. Guns are not the problem. You're still fucked if a criminal came up to you with a knife or a gun, but you're less fucked if you have a gun. And once more, target shooting with fullautos requires skill. If the goal is to reduce crime give police more power. Focus at the young level to snip crime in the bud. Drug checks on welfare. Some sort of uproot time for welfare. Better child services to prevent abusive households becoming a problem.

And finally, I really don't know where you are going with this damn jam analogy.

Whilst you are less fucked if someone tries to mug you with a knife than with a gun, the point of gun control is not to reduce armed robbery; there are, surprise surprise, other situations in which guns hurt people. An immediately available method of suicide sharply increases the rate, and there's no method of mass murder quite as effective as a shooting spree, as nutcase after nutcase has patiently explained to us.

Boston? 9/11? Various Carbombings? Bali Bombings? Once more, mental health is the issue. The only way to truly remove suicide is not to remove the tool, but remove the cause or treat it. Bullied kids did the shootings, mentally affected people do shootings, not everyday gun owners. Gangs are a sharp cause of gun violence. Remove the gangs, remove the gun violence.

[Max White]

Oh noes! He is pointing out how putting my personal hobby above others lives is irrational! Quick, call discrimination and ignore the issue.
Here is one for you to look up; pathos!

You still haven't even made it very clear the implications of the national curriculum. From what I can gather you are just reciting what you have been told by some teachers.

While crime is going up in Britain, gun crime is still far below countries will less restrictions. Using Britain as an example is like saying we need to crack down on drink driving because of increased tax fraud. Drug checks on people doesn't stop gun crime. Also it costs money, money we don't have because of a shrinking budget, right? You said it yourself...

If getting head shots is too hard... LEARN TO SHOOT. There is no 'missed, fire again'. That means you didn't line up your shot before you stupidly pulled the trigger. There is only hit or a mistake you shouldn't have made. Gun laws are important to you because you like shooting, gun laws are important to me because I like low gun crime.

[kingfisher1112]

Oh noes! He is pointing out how putting my personal hobby above others lives is irrational! Quick, call discrimination and ignore the issue.
Here is one for you to look up; pathos!

You still haven't even made it very clear the implications of the national curriculum. From what I can gather you are just reciting what you have been told by some teachers.

While crime is going up in Britain, gun crime is still far below countries will less restrictions. Using Britain as an example is like saying we need to crack down on drink driving because of increased tax fraud. Drug checks on people doesn't stop gun crime. Also it costs money, money we don't have because of a shrinking budget, right? You said it yourself...

If getting head shots is too hard... LEARN TO SHOOT. There is no 'missed, fire again'. That means you didn't line up your shot before you stupidly pulled the trigger. There is only hit or a mistake you shouldn't have made. Gun laws are important to you because you like shooting, gun laws are important to me because I like low gun crime.

So basically you prefer a slow, bleed to death than the ability to defend yourself?

No, once more. I know that my quality of education has gone down. All my teachers have said it. We say it's too hard. Their hands are tied.

So when I call discrimination it is just to cover for holes in my argument, but when you do it you're a moral crusader?

Gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, all Muslims are terrorist, kill all boat people, remove Chinese from our country.
It's still discrimination. You calling me a guy who gets a hardon over guns is the EXACT SAME as someone calling a gay a f*g. EXACTLY.

[Max White]

When am I going to bleed to death? When I get shot by a criminal, or when I get shot by a family member mistaking me for a criminal in my own home. Right now it is illegal to carry guns on the street, and it is working pretty well so far. This 'CRIMINALS WILL KILL YOU!' argument is a blatant appeal to fear, clean and simple.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize there was a history of gun owners being beaten to death just for owning a gun. I didn't realize gun owners were subject to years of emotional abuse because of something that doesn't harm anybody. If you think it is the same, you live a very sheltered life.

[kingfisher1112]

When am I going to bleed to death? When I get shot by a criminal, or when I get shot by a family member mistaking me for a criminal in my own home. Right now it is illegal to carry guns on the street, and it is working pretty well so far. This 'CRIMINALS WILL KILL YOU!' argument is a blatant appeal to fear, clean and simple.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize there was a history of gun owners being beaten to death just for owning a gun. I didn't realize gun owners were subject to years of emotional abuse because of something that doesn't harm anybody. If you think it is the same, you live a very sheltered life.

There is a huge social stigma surrounding owning a gun. You're automatically an ignorant redneck hillbilly, and will get treated as such. It's still a stereotype. In fact, if LGBT members carried pistols they would be a lot safer. Look up the pink pistols.

You're going to bleed to death from a knife. The thing is, if everybody, and I mean everybody, carried a pistol we would have intensely low violent crime. Fully automatics are not useful for criminals in anything other than drive-bys. Semiautos are the only really useful one, and the thing is, why can't we just keep semi/fullautos at clubs? There, all gun violence problems solved.

[Scelly9]

PTW

[Dutchling]

Could anyone link me to an article (or explain) about the education reforms / changes / problems you talked about a little earlier. Seems like something that might be interesting to read.

You're going to bleed to death from a knife. The thing is, if everybody, and I mean everybody, carried a pistol we would have intensely low violent crime. Fully automatics are not useful for criminals in anything other than drive-bys. Semiautos are the only really useful one, and the thing is, why can't we just keep semi/fullautos at clubs? There, all gun violence problems solved.

I would comment on that, but I'd rather avoid a gun control debate on this forum, especially in a thread about a country I do not know a lot about.

[Max White]

There is a huge social stigma surrounding owning a gun. You're automatically an ignorant redneck hillbilly, and will get treated as such. It's still a stereotype. In fact, if LGBT members carried pistols they would be a lot safer. Look up the pink pistols.

You're going to bleed to death from a knife. The thing is, if everybody, and I mean everybody, carried a pistol we would have intensely low violent crime. Fully automatics are not useful for criminals in anything other than drive-bys. Semiautos are the only really useful one, and the thing is, why can't we just keep semi/fullautos at clubs? There, all gun violence problems solved.

Oh god, are we really going there?

No, there is no evidence that arming the entire populas would be productive. This is just another fire arms fetish wet dream you have while stroking your barrel. The US has the highest rate of guns in the world at almost 90%, and has a significantly higher rate of gun crime than we do. The only nations that are worse off tend to have insanely high corruption in their police force beyond AUS or the US.

Also, if I get called a tree hugging hippy I don't care. It isn't discrimination. As long as they address the argument while they do so, I couldn't care! Put on your big boy pants.

[kingfisher1112]

There is a huge social stigma surrounding owning a gun. You're automatically an ignorant redneck hillbilly, and will get treated as such. It's still a stereotype. In fact, if LGBT members carried pistols they would be a lot safer. Look up the pink pistols.

You're going to bleed to death from a knife. The thing is, if everybody, and I mean everybody, carried a pistol we would have intensely low violent crime. Fully automatics are not useful for criminals in anything other than drive-bys. Semiautos are the only really useful one, and the thing is, why can't we just keep semi/fullautos at clubs? There, all gun violence problems solved.

Oh god, are we really going there?

No, there is no evidence that arming the entire populas would be productive. This is just another fire arms fetish wet dream you have while stroking your barrel. The US has the highest rate of guns in the world at almost 90%, and has a significantly higher rate of gun crime than we do. The only nations that are worse off tend to have insanely high corruption in their police force beyond AUS or the US.

Also, if I get called a tree hugging hippy I don't care. It isn't discrimination. As long as they address the argument while they do so, I couldn't care! Put on your big boy pants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia#Gun_law
Read it and weep. 50% lower crime than the rest of the state.

EDIT: Oh, and since we're moving into juvenile attack videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtXBgiubnK8

[Max White]

Read it? Ok!

Later research claims that there is no evidence that [the law] reduced the rate of home burglaries [in Kennesaw],[20][21] even though the overall crime rate had decreased by more than 50% between 1982 and 2005.

Hmm... Seems that correlation != causation! Well what do you know?
Not high school science, at least. We don't know what other factors were at work at the time, but if such an ordinance was passed,you can be pretty confident other measures were taken.

I am going to go with the experts on this one and call bullshit. No tears were wept.

[Reudh]

Even if it were true, it is an anomaly in an otherwise gun-crime ridden country.

[kingfisher1112]

Read it? Ok!

Later research claims that there is no evidence that [the law] reduced the rate of home burglaries [in Kennesaw],[20][21] even though the overall crime rate had decreased by more than 50% between 1982 and 2005.

Hmm... Seems that correlation != causation! Well what do you know?
Not high school science, at least. We don't know what other factors were at work at the time, but if such an ordinance was passed,you can be pretty confident other measures were taken.

I am going to go with the experts on this one and call bullshit. No tears were wept.

Oh! So others factors were at work! Just like gun violence! You're not getting the point are you?

Let's put it in baby-talk, since it appears you can't read.

Criminals bad people. Where criminals come from? Bad houses. Bad parents. Drugs, abuse. Go to crime to pay for self. Shoot people. Criminal get gun despite law. Criminal no follow law. Criminal smuggle. Criminal grow drugs. Cut out early criminal source, no criminal.

[Reudh]

Me Reudh, me see criminals lots in bad suburbs. Me never see gun. Me only see knife.

[kingfisher1112]

Me Reudh, me see criminals lots in bad suburbs. Me never see gun. Me only see knife.

Me in normal people place. Me see targets, because no self-defence.

[Dutchling]

Me Dutchling. Me see gun control debate. Me see nonsense. Me abandon thread.

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