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[Sheb]

So the guy shot an elephant? I mean what's the problem with that?

[Max White]

To avoid a long-ish post, I can sum up my feeling about him with one word.

"Abhorrent"

honorable? honorable?!?!?!


Maby we can start the "Anti-Shooters and Fishers party". Hell, there was an "Anti-Green" party.

To be fair the "Stop the Greens" thing isn't a party, it is the name of the voting ticket of the Outdoor Recreation Party. They get more votes riling up people who still think the greens are against hazard reduction burning (They arn't) than actually going in on face value. It is political bullshittery of the highest magnatude that nobody else would even want to do, but what else do you expect from minor right ring parties?

So the guy shot an elephant? I mean what's the problem with that?

Hunting threatened species is generally thought of as a bad thing.

[Sheb]

Not all elephants populations are threatened. Zimbabwe (where this guy shot his elephants) actually got an over-population problem. Plus, sport hunters inject large amount of cash in a country that need it. In Zimbabwe, we're talking about ~1200$/day.

So that guy actually gave huge dollops of money to a country that really needs it while performing necessary culling.

[alexandertnt]

There is also the fact that animals hunted like that tend to die suffering.

If you want to control populations, there are better ways to do it.

[Max White]

Interesting article, although it doesn't specify if it is talking about African Bush or Forest elephants, forest being the more endangered of the two. A blanket approval of hunting different species when they are at different threat levels isn't going to be productive.

That being said I don't know the species that was shot, but I have this tendency to be harsh on people who might be killing endangered species. The humane culling of an animal that is getting out of hand? Go for it, but excuse my hesitance in making sure it is actually called for.

Still, the reddish color is more likely to be Forest, but don't take that as certainty.

There is also the fact that animals hunted like that tend to die suffering.

If you want to control populations, there are better ways to do it.

Well it only took him four shots to the skull, so it could be worse, right?
Natural predators is my preferred method, but then not many things hunt elephants apart from people...

[Sheb]

Seriously? That bull was downed by a shot to the head at six paces. Instant death.

Seriously, I'm not into hunting, but if someone want to inject tens of thousands of dollars into Zimbabwe's economy while performing something that would have to be done by park rangers otherwise I'm all for it. Plus, by putting such an high value on elephants, it encourages people to leave natural parks big enough to breed them, thus protecting a whole lot of other species.

Unless I'm missing something, this is the perfect picture of responsible, sustainable, valuable hunting.

P.S. Northern Zimbabwe (where this bull was shot) is mostly savannah, so my guess would be bush elephant. I agree a blanket licence to kill any elephant would be bad if one species is at risk and the other not, but you don't know if it is or not the case in Zimbabwe. Edit: Actually, the range of the forest elephant don't include Zimbabwe, so it was a bush elephant.

P.P.S. Also, being killed by natural predators seems much more painful than being killed by a gun, if you're into preventing animal suffering.

P.P.P.S. Standard procedure when hunting elephants is to shoot him a few more time in the head once he's down, just to make sure (You don't want your trophy to suddenly wake up while you're taking a picture if you only stunned him). The elephant still most likely died with the first shot.

[Max White]

Suffering is part of nature. I favor ecological sustainability over protection of all animals everywhere always.
If these elephants are getting over populated so quickly, it would seem to indicate something is out of balance somewhere. Could be that natural predators that would normally prey on the young are missing, or excess grassland has led to over abundance of food for a while letting the population get out of hand (A problem we face in Australia with kangaroos), I'm not an expert.

[alexandertnt]

I was referring to hunting in general.

[Sheb]

So you both agree than in this particular case, the guy did nothing wrong?

[alexandertnt]

So you both agree than in this particular case, the guy did nothing wrong?

He did nothing wrong in the sense that he broke no laws.

But I dont like him, and would not vote for him, as I dissagree with what he does and find it cruel (hunting) and distasteful (taking images of it as some sort of prize to be proud of).

[Max White]

So you both agree than in this particular case, the guy did nothing wrong?

I'm willing to give him a 'not guilty', but that isn't the same as 'innocent'.
Might be more I don't know, but it is certainly plausible this was part of a required cull.

Of coarse I'm hesitant to call any action to do with the Mugabe government clean, but lets not go too far.

[Sheb]

While I can get behind the "distasteful" part (as I said, I'm not into hunting), I don't see what's cruel about hunting. Humans are hunters, and we have a role to play in ecosystems as super predators, just like wolves and lions.

Of course, the guy might be an asshat for all I know, I'm just judging this particular hunt, not the guy.

[Max White]

Well he resorts to calling political opponents communists a damn lot, that is always ground for total hate, right? Right? 

[alexandertnt]

While I can get behind the "distasteful" part (as I said, I'm not into hunting), I don't see what's cruel about hunting. Humans are hunters, and we have a role to play in ecosystems as super predators, just like wolves and lions.

I could understand hunting as a necessity to survive, sure. But its a sport, where missing an important part can cause prolonged suffering.

[Sheb]

Still less painful than being hunted by wolves for example. Moreover, in many ecosystems, either there aren't enough superpredators to do the job, or humans are the only one keeping some animals in check.

I'm not talking about hunting as a tool of surviving, I'm talking about hunting as a tool to manage ecosystems. If people are willing to pay for doing the job and get a kick for it, all the better.