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[Zrk2]

So the experiment is seeing what alignment I flip when I get lynched? Unfortunately I'm going out right now, so while this will look incredibly scummy, the percentages tell me this is the best plan, seeing as I know I am town, whereas I have no such guarantee for ZU. Therefore, Unvote Alamoes, vote Zombie Urist. I bid you adieu.

[Vector]

No, that's not the experiment.  Why would I need to conceal that?  Nice try, though.

[alamoes]

Because ZU looks fairly scummy to me, I still pick him.  I have to go though so until later that is my vote, maybe for the rest of the day.   

[Tiruin]

Because ZU looks fairly scummy to me, I still pick him.  I have to go though so until later that is my vote, maybe for the rest of the day.   

Don't forget to answer everything else that was asked of you prior to your non-PC typed post back there.

Why is he fairly scummy in comparison to his predecessor, and...how, exactly. To you. You can say "Oh that guy is scummy", yeah, but people will wonder why you're saying so for what reason - its best to detail that reason out so you could start a conversation somehow. Or just detail it.

Also we've about...~6 hours left from final votecount.

[zombie urist]

Are you always this laconic? More importantly, do you stand by the words and votes of Fresh?

Yes, no.

ZU, for what reason do you vote Captain Ford?

1. Passiveness
2. Defensiveness of alamoes
3. His reason for voting Fresh was most BS (almoes is a close second)
4. He didn't respond to the scroll of mail I sent him. 

ZU:
Alright. Reading Roguelike 2 gave me nightmares. Why randomizes over standard redirects?

Cuz randomizes are random and less predictable. Also less confirmable.

zombieurist, your reads on everyone please.

In order from scum to town:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Scum
Captain Ford
alamoes
Zrk2
Imperial Guardsman
The Soldier
notquitethere
Vector
Hapah
Tiruin
Town

No reads:
Leafsnail
Deathsword
Okami No Rei

[Vector]

I don't seem to remember your being quite this laconic in, say, Mafias and Masons.

Also, scroll of mail?  Do you mean...

   4. Do not PM other players.  Players with private chat access will be given a topic on QuickTopic where they may post freely.

[zombie urist]

I do. Also scroll of mail is a common item.

also also, extend extend extend

[Hapah]

(PPE: There's a question for you down in Okami's section, Zrk2)

Leaf

-stuff in Post 223-

Concerning your points:

Points 1 and 3, I think you are seeing it wrong. At the very least, I could understand why Zrk2 did what he did. He was just trying to rattle the new guy's cage so that he'd get his head in the game, and from where I'm sitting it looks like it worked. The post isn't a masterpiece or anything, but it's far and away the best post from alamoes this game. It looks like he's trying now. I could possibly give you point 2 though, pending a reread.

A vote has pressure because the person who's being voted thinks "shit I'm going to be lynched" and is thus pressured.  If they know it's not an "I am going to do my best to lynch you" vote then there's no pressure.

It got him to actually play, though. ImpGuard got a "traditional" pressure vote and is still a bit player, yeah? Which would you say got results?

Oka:

Even Vector mentioned that earlier.

Appeal to authority.  Also, making excuses.

The appeal to authority part is debatable, but I can't seem to find anything about Vector pressuring multiple people at all. Zrk2: Where'd you pull that from?

Okay.  Zrk2

He hasn't been particularly productive, Leaf, so the points you cited do have merit.  If he ends up flipping town, I hope you don't mind if I push you hard on the morrow.

And why would this be Leaf's fault if Zrk flips town?

Spoiler: EVE (click to show/hide)

I'll send you a mail, but I'm just a mediocre hi-sec bear, lol. I'm buying PLEXes with ISK to keep the account up, and I got dec'd and my POS entered and left reinforced before I logged back in after a couple days. Logged in to see it at 30% shields with people bashing it.

Spoiler: OOC @ Okami No Rei (click to show/hide)

Careful combining booze and Mafia. I'm pretty sure I went off on a rant about werewolf enchanter hooker-cops or something once, lol

Vector

Yeah, next step.  I'll explain on D2 if I'm still alive.

This and all the following bits seem damn odd, but what can I do? I hope you make it to D2.

Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)

NQT:

Well for one, I find Imp's lack of a reply suspicious. Merely asking questions is sometimes enough to get started with.

But Deathsword didn't answer either, did he? Did I miss it, or do you not give a damn about the replies?

I'd find a lot things potentially suspicious, including, for instance, any reply which either exaggerated or understated the importance of some game element.

According to who? It feels like you are making this up as you go along.

[Leafsnail]

This is an excellent summary of the current B12 meta on bandwagons.  May I quote you on this in other games?

Sure.

Harassing Vector? Me?  I just put my vote on her because she's scum more often than not, and I wanted a good placeholder vote while analyzing everybody's reasoning.

This is gambler's fallacy.  Well I guess reverse gambler's fallacy.  Either way someone's alignments in past games doesn't give any information about their alignment in the current game.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail: You're prepared to out Zrk2 without asking him anything - leading only to a declarative post? Was that a definitive vote, or a pressure vote - and when did your suspicions rise on him?

It was a definitive vote.  My suspicions rose on him when I read his posts and realized he had contributed nothing to the game.

I don't think there's anything to ask.

While what you said is very agreeable, you don't seem to poke him on any of those which you've stated, but come up with a conclusion instead.

Yes.

I'm acting under the impression that people do mistakes, and while people commit mistakes - their intentions can me remarked on due to their personality.

Yeah, I guess so?

Though...Zrk did comment on your post. And did nothing else but give a nearly blank statement. Even if he did such, you really do believe enough on Zrk2 to try attempt to convince Okami on him?

As you say he failed to address any of the substantive points I brought up, so yes.

Followed by a justified push on what constitutes a bandwagon and the analogy behind it, Okami wasn't even bandwagoning anyone as Vector had no votes beforehand. Who were you talking about when you said

As for your vote, I'm going to go ahead and say it's stupid and that Bay 12's entire attitude to bandwagoning is kindof silly[...]

Because the semantics point to Okami.

I wasn't accusing Okami of bandwagoning at all.  I was saying his vote, in which he accused Vector of bandwagoning, was bad, and so is the general attitude towards "bandwagoning" on Bay 12.

And lastly, why are you pointing to a psychological basis other than poking at your target with direct questions? What you said in relation with the bandwagon seems more of a justification without any kind of foundation - nobody remarked on a bandwagon that would compromise your post at all. Its agreeable, yeah, and can seemingly convince in itself, but why did you even state those ideas?

I don't understand.  I think this point will be cleared up if you reread my post keeping in mind that I'm not accusing Okami of bandwagoning.

Like this, for example. How in the world does this make sense, and why are you remarking on it? There is no policy, only an intangible line of thought that implies fear due to lack of reasoning - something which is easily cleared up later on. How does scum easily manipulate the lynch in this scenario?

I guess it's not a "policy" so much as "a thing that everybody does and continues to do because nobody has bothered to challenge it in the past".  That doesn't change my point.

Scum can easily manipulate the lynch because under the "you aren't allowed to agree with anyone, ever" meta we tend to end up with really tiny plurality lynches.  So maybe there's only one or two votes between the person who is going to get lynched and the person with the next most votes.  This means the scum can drop in and they only need to make a couple of votes to change the lynch target to someone favourable for them.  Compare this to "We are allowed to agree with each other" in which you can get a solid majority on someone, preventing the scum from changing the target of the lynch.

[Leafsnail]

Points 1 and 3, I think you are seeing it wrong. At the very least, I could understand why Zrk2 did what he did. He was just trying to rattle the new guy's cage so that he'd get his head in the game, and from where I'm sitting it looks like it worked. The post isn't a masterpiece or anything, but it's far and away the best post from alamoes this game. It looks like he's trying now. I could possibly give you point 2 though, pending a reread.

If you reject point 3 then point 2 should stand.  While I can sortof see the value in getting a new guy to post better it doesn't directly help us to find scum.

It got him to actually play, though. ImpGuard got a "traditional" pressure vote and is still a bit player, yeah? Which would you say got results?

I don't think Alamoes minor improvement in play is attributable to Zrk2's vote.

[Imperial Guardsman]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

sorry. my computer has been being a heretic ( lol )

no, i have not taken lessons from anybody. i am brand new, and paying attention to the personalities of others
i will wait during the night phase and hope that the mafia does not target me.

[Hapah]

Points 1 and 3, I think you are seeing it wrong. At the very least, I could understand why Zrk2 did what he did. He was just trying to rattle the new guy's cage so that he'd get his head in the game, and from where I'm sitting it looks like it worked. The post isn't a masterpiece or anything, but it's far and away the best post from alamoes this game. It looks like he's trying now. I could possibly give you point 2 though, pending a reread.

If you reject point 3 then point 2 should stand.  While I can sortof see the value in getting a new guy to post better it doesn't directly help us to find scum.

And point 2 may stand, as I said. I just haven't done the reread to see if it does, though it appears some others have.

It got him to actually play, though. ImpGuard got a "traditional" pressure vote and is still a bit player, yeah? Which would you say got results?

I don't think Alamoes minor improvement in play is attributable to Zrk2's vote.

And I don't think it can be dismissed out of hand. (PPE: Computer troubles on ImpGuard's part, so we may never know)

Are you holding strong to all points? It looks like Zrk is getting lynched boils down to being not-so-great at RVS to me.

[Leafsnail]

The fact that his posts are still describable as "RVS" as the day is coming to a close is part of the problem really!

[Hapah]

All I'm saying is that it looks like he's a serious lynch candidate because of:

-His pressure vote didn't fit the shape your idea of a pressure vote (though, as far as I'm concerned, it had the desired effect. Only alamoes knows for sure though)
-He didn't do a good job of scumhunting during RVS (and he's hardly alone in that regard).

and that's it. Isn't it? We might have to agree to disagree on some points, but it looks awfully thin to me and I'm kind of amazed it took off like it did. Maybe the others see something I don't.

I still think NQT is scummy.