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v:

[Dariush]

@Dariush: Mages are for being glass cannons and support, not hack-and-slash gang warriors

Wait, what? What does that have to do with mage commanders not being able to order their fellow mages to cast something?

[Haspen]

Okay, but I don't have any idea how to keep the Rally useful, not OP, and still affecting random people

Besides, how you want to concert multiple heals? Multiple Focus Energy? What if a mage under your command have to refill and you order him to cast something else instead?

[Ochita]

Basically Dariush, mages are not really best controlled to do things. Advised, yes, but not controlled.

[Dariush]

Okay, I kinda see your point, but I still think that Commander should be turned into a Fighter-only skill.

[Tiruin]

Some notes

Mages:
> Limited MP, once out, they're darned vulnerable.
> See the Energy Focus/MP regain? You only gain 3MP for 1 turn. That turn = vulnerability.
> Mages have no AP (Max is 1 - mithril robes). Only dodging.
> They're doomed at a close up quarters fight, but their advantage is their spells.
> Can provide healing support.
Fighters:
> Have AP, nullified by most mages spells.
> Can wipe the floor with mages, though, are still vulnerable to their spells as the latter could go with a hit and cover tactic.

Okay, I kinda see your point, but I still think that Commander should be turned into a Fighter-only skill.

This is very reasonable.

[Harry Baldman]

Well, mages could benefit immensely from a Rally ability that rallies only fighters - say, when they are dragged into close-quarters combat with a heavily-armed brute. Essentially, the only use of the Rally ability is to gather expendable meatshields (the other players on the team) to get the Commander out of any trouble they may have blundered into.

Also, Shieldmaster might need a rebalance. Maybe have shieldmasters start with the least powerful weapons, or perhaps even do something like decrease the maximum damage they can deal by 1 to reflect their defensive combat technique. After all, being able to use the shield bonus at all times is pretty powerful.

[Dariush]

Well, mages could benefit immensely from a Rally ability that rallies only fighters - say, when they are dragged into close-quarters combat with a heavily-armed brute. Essentially, the only use of the Rally ability is to gather expendable meatshields (the other players on the team) to get the Commander out of any trouble they may have blundered into.

If a mage commander rallies his team just to save his own ass, that makes the fighters of his team basically waste a turn instead of doing anything productive (like deciding which mages to protect), and thus leaving every mage except for the commander extremely vulnerable. I see no valid use for this, barring griefing.

Gargh, I hate stealth edits. I support Harry's idea regarding Shieldmasters. A nerf is in order.

[Haspen]

Fine then, Commander becomes Fighter-class only skill. But then I have to re-do Dariush' sheet v:

Also, what about mage armors? Leave it 'robes - aketon' or maybe 'robes - mithril robes'?

As for Shieldmaster, dunno. They kinda forego +1dmg for +1 parry because they don't grab (weapon)master. Parry bonus is capped at +4 anyways, so a lucky shot (6 vs 1) can still one-hit them.

[Dariush]

Fine then, Commander becomes Fighter-class only skill. But then I have to re-do Dariush' sheet v:

Whyyy? I like the current one.

As for Shieldmaster, dunno. They kinda forego +1dmg for +1 parry because they don't grab (weapon)master. Parry bonus is capped at +4 anyways, so a lucky shot (6 vs 1) can still one-hit them.

Well, why not raise SMs' cap to +5 then?

[Haspen]

How do you want to kill a Shieldmaster then?

[Dariush]

Slowly.

[Haspen]

1+5 = 6

6 on both sides = no damage.

That leaves the only window of opportunity for hitting would be with Metal Curse on.

[Haspen]

Okay, made Commander a figher-class only.

No Shieldmaster skill because Agile gives the same bonus, more or less

Dariush and Borno need new sheets because they're both Mage Commanders

[Dariush]

Dariush and Borno need new sheets because they're both Mage Commanders

O rly?

[Haspen]

No wait, just borno

* Haspen is blind :V