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[Catsup]

exactly my point, fortress mode should be freedom for the player to construct whatever they want, do whatever they want, and survive while having fun. If players are going to force dwarves into doing things they would otherwise think to be unthinkable, might as well implement it as a part of the game?

[Putnam]

No. What I'm saying is that implementing it as part of the game suggests that the dwarves do that, which they don't.

[Catsup]

No. What I'm saying is that implementing it as part of the game suggests that the dwarves do that, which they don't.

hmm you have a point...this makes elves seem like the more attractive race to play tho because they find torture as example acceptable. This also means dwarves would (unfortunately) rather not use deterrence as a warfare strategy. Perhaps implement allowing forts of different races to be played then?

[Waparius]

...I must be missing something. I thought you could already toss goblins onto spikes/pit them in a roomful-o'-spike-traps and get somebody to pull the lever over and over.

[Putnam]

...I must be missing something. I thought you could already toss goblins onto spikes/pit them in a roomful-o'-spike-traps and get somebody to pull the lever over and over.

You can. The suggestion is for it to be an official feature.

(Which I disagree with :3)

[alamoes]

The puritans in Massachusetts cut off the head of a native american leader and posted it outside one of their meeting houses from about 1650-1700.  I say do it.  It would be horribly awesome to have rows upon rows of corpses hanging from a cross, bolted to it by the hands and knees, sitting outside a human city.  You would be able to talk to some of the ones who are still alive and hear their tale.  (You'd be able to live about 3-7 days on a crucible)

[Catsup]

i was modding entities earlier for a new adventurer world (where all the races lived like humans in towns) and i just noticed, all the other races; even humans, in addition to goblins and elves find torture as an example acceptable (most of them did not accept other forms of torture though). I think a change to vanilla dwarven ethics might be considered, dwarves seem like the odd one out for this particular ethic...and it isnt fun at all =(

[RockBiterSon]

Now, now, I see a morale/fear mechanic as highly desireable, but I have to say that torture for cruelty's sake is both out of character for the dwarves and not actually adding anything to the game. This thread is about intimidation though, and that I see as just fine; whether it be "green rain" or a row of stakes with bodies on them(say one for each citizen killed in the last seige)

Torture for info is not something I see as possibly being part of the game, mostly only because info is useless though. If you could quizz the goblin leader on where his hideout is and then actually send a squad out to take the fight to them, that would be cool. I see that being implemented in adventure mode first though, and yes this is highly susceptible to player cruelty, but I feel that it isn't encouraging it. (as torture for torture's sake, also suggested in this thread, definately is)

So basically, one shouldn't encourage players to be bastards, but if you try to stop them from being sadistic you're only wasting your time and taking features away from those who wouldn't "abuse" them. People will find a way to make torture chambers anyways, it's a part of the fanbase's culture. It shouldn't be encouraged, but don't let fear of people taking the idea and running away with it paralyze you.

[Rydel]

This is already in the game for non-player Civs as the [ABUSE_BODIES] token.  Since Dwarves don't have this token, it would be very odd to create something specifically designed for the Dwarves doing something they aren't supposed to be doing.  All the other examples you've listed are taking things with legitimate Dwarven uses and putting them to use towards an end they wouldn't commit.  This doesn't have any use that doesn't violate the Dwarves ethics.

[Loud Whispers]

Quite so, this all seems very very goblin. Not Dorfy at all. If anything the only people who would be making forests of skeletons on spikes should be the goblin/demons. Or Elf barbecues.

[assasin]

Quite so, this all seems very very goblin. Not Dorfy at all. If anything the only people who would be making forests of skeletons on spikes should be the goblin/demons. Or Elf barbecues.

"a short sturdy race fond of drink and industry."

nothing there about being rights activists. My personal connotation of a dwarf is a hardworking, honourable creature who doesn't take shit from anyone and if anyone broke an agreement or commited some crime they wouldn't hold back in the punishment department. Sure, they may not torture for fun. Some of the more bastard ones may torture for profit, but the majority, probably also exluding a large, more moral, minority, would find torture as a punishment fine

[Rydel]

Sure, they may not torture for fun. Some of the more bastard ones may torture for profit, but the majority, probably also exluding a large, more moral, minority, would find torture as a punishment fine

Unlikely.  While a TORTURE_FOR_PUNISHMENT token doesn't exist, Dwarves have every Torture ethic in the game marked as Unthinkable.
From entity_default.txt:
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]

[Putnam]

I think AS_EXAMPLE and FOR_INFORMATION together count as punishment.

[Catsup]

Quite so, this all seems very very goblin. Not Dorfy at all. If anything the only people who would be making forests of skeletons on spikes should be the goblin/demons. Or Elf barbecues.

exactly why the pike system is a necessity, creatures of cruelty such as goblins are likely psychopathic and would only understand fear. This is speaking to them in a language they understand. This is different from the goblins' version of ABUSE_BODIES because they use it when they're pillaging defenseless settlements (which may be dwarven...) and use it in a way to terrorize the civilians of enemy civilizations. Dwarves use it not because it's "dorfy" but because goblins cannot be reasoned with otherwise.

[Loud Whispers]

Quite so, this all seems very very goblin. Not Dorfy at all. If anything the only people who would be making forests of skeletons on spikes should be the goblin/demons. Or Elf barbecues.

"a short sturdy race fond of drink and industry."

nothing there about being rights activists.

   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE] <- UNTHINKABLE!
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:UNTHINKABLE] <- UNTHINKABLE!
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE] <- UNTHINKABLE!
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE] <- UNTHINKABLE!
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_SERIOUS] <- Corporal is fine for retribution - not terror.
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL] <- Executions are fine.
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE] <- Not Elves.
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:UNTHINKABLE] <- Still not Elves.
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:APPALLING] <- Seriously.
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:SHUN] <- Why impaling is not fine.
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE] <- Why totems are fine.

Quite so, this all seems very very goblin. Not Dorfy at all. If anything the only people who would be making forests of skeletons on spikes should be the goblin/demons. Or Elf barbecues.

exactly why the pike system is a necessity, creatures of cruelty such as goblins are likely psychopathic and would only understand fear. This is speaking to them in a language they understand. This is different from the goblins' version of ABUSE_BODIES because they use it when they're pillaging defenseless settlements (which may be dwarven...) and use it in a way to terrorize the civilians of enemy civilizations. Dwarves use it not because it's "dorfy" but because goblins cannot be reasoned with otherwise.

This seems to be taking the Dwarves out of character for the sake of wanton cruelty. Goblins would probably feel more at home if encountered with the road of spikes you propose being a "necessity." If anything, the only people this'd affect negatively are your Dwarves and human merchants.