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[BunnySuit]

Call me sick, call me Bunnysuit

First post and new to Dwarf Fortress for a month now and been gobbling and absorbing mass amounts of data in my brain to understand this behemoth of a game.

Suggestion:
Impaling and crucifixes

See this as a form of deterrent terror warfare, similar to tombs, but only dedicated to the unlucky invader or criminal.
Placed around the exterior of your fort, we could imagine an array of dead creatures and goblins impaled or nailed to a cross as trophies. A reminiscence of prior attacks.

Rodents would peck on their ever decomposing body, sweet!
Incoming attackers with weak anxiety, vulnerability, low confidence or organization would most likely flee.
This would also come with a series of side effects balancing out the effectiveness. (150 piked elves could discourage them form trading with you)

Funny situations could also arise from this such as necromancers reviving piked humanoids, dwarfs being desensitized from violence, criminal dwarfs becoming martyrs 

I could go on and on, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

My reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

[Drago55577]

Welcome to the forums, then?

I like the idea of impaling tree selling hippies elven merchants on spears.
Although, i assume their's more important stuff that needs to be coded right now, but it's a good idea (I think).

[BunnySuit]

Can't argue with that.

But being a life long project.. In the long run, this becomes a necessity.

[Putnam]

Dwarves won't do this, as they don't have the already-existing [ABUSE_BODIES] token:

The civilization will mutilate bodies when they are the victors in history-gen warfare, such as hanging bodies from trees, putting them on spikes, and so forth. Adventurers killed in Adventurer mode will sometimes be impaled on spikes wherever they died, with or without this token, and regardless of whether they actually antagonized the townspeople.

[Revanchist]

For entities that do though, I'm all for it. Would you be able to pick and choose which bodies are impaled? If so, do different bodies give different effects? (more shock from a titan, a bit less from a chinchilla, for example) that ought to fit well with the upcoming behaviour changes.

Will entities that dislike the abuse of bodies take offense when they visit?

[BunnySuit]

Sure can! l
Not to forget, a caged live goblin could also be assigned to be impaled so it would not only concern corpses   
If allowed justice could also use the pointy stick. 

Effects would mostly be behavioral!
-Affects diplomatic stance
-Could lower fortress moral
-Desensitize to violence
-Terror

[weenog]

The mutilation and torture-killing are no good, they seem like being nasty for nastiness' own sake.  I expect impaling folks alive to be summarily rejected for reasons along similar lines as Toady not wanting DF to be that game with the shitting, pissing, raping dwarfs.  A building which you can use to stake out territorial borders with fear, and put a healthy respect into criminals and other ne'er-do-wells, though, that could be pretty excellent.  I think this would probably be better done as a totem change.   Make it into a furniture item so it can be built, tie some sort of area fear effect to it, and adjust the range and potency of the fear effect based on the type of creature the skull came from, and the craftsdwarfship.

[Catsup]

this is a very good idea, we should add torture devices as well; perhaps a way to heal tortured captives so they are less likely to die. Then we leave their mangled barely-living corpse outside for the next round of invaders to see.

Also add in a type of de-moralization/fear system for the enemy if they see their former commander/general in such a state; would be pleasing to see goblins in utter terror every time they try to ambush, siege, and snatch. (my fort has the edge walled off with inter-connected raising bridges all to 1 lever to wall of retreaters; i tend open a passage that leads to the outside that is basically a maze of cage-traps to obtain more torture-ees).

oh and ppl saying this is nasty, yes it is; but stupid (troglodyte, blind cave trolgre) and cruel creatures (goblin) can only understand this kind of language. I wouldnt do this to kinder races like elves or humans, i would let elves be mauled by their own tame giant tiger that i stole off their caravan but not this kind of torture.

[RockBiterSon]

It would be great if there were a "morale" matrix. Everytime an ally dies near a unit it lowers their morale considerably, seeing a friendly break and run would cause everyone else to panic and rout. But it could be even more in depth...
Imagine this possibility:
The goblins arrive at the fort, it is as their spies and advance scouts had described it, though with one change: a tall tower looms over the entrance, no doubt the beginning of some ambitious project. The goblin leader's mouth twists into a wicked grin. Their "megaproject" will all be for naught; it would have been better for them to have spent their time preparing defensive traps. These fools will be taught the folly of their way of life soon enough. The goblins sing war chants as they pass over the open gates in the dwarven wall. They stomp their feet in time to epic tales relating slaughter and mayhem, and thrust their weapons in the air. This is the warband of a well-known chief, not a ragtag bunch that must be spurned onwards with whips and driven ahead merely because their fear of their superiors is slightly greater than their fear of their enemies. No, these warriors know that glory is theirs to be had today, and that they will write a new chapter of the history of their people in the blood of their enemies. If they fall: eternal drinking and fighting in Goblinhalla, if they live: a slice of the famous wealth of dwarves will be awarded to them by their chief. The mood could not be better. The goblins will fight well today, meanwhile the dwarves are nowhere to be seen.
As they approach the entrance itself, their anticipation reaches a fever pitch. It is only as they approach the entrance though, that they note the tower's true height. Its highest level extends a short distance over the sheer wall. As for the fort itself: The doors are open! The goblins break into headlong run. None of them note the the overhang is dotted with hatches that are opening, that is, until objects start falling out of said hatches.
"Fear not rocks! For every goblin crushed we will kill ten more!" With that morale was maintained, until they saw that it wasn't rocks being dropped on them. It was the remnants of last year's seige....
The first wave hit the ground before the goblins reached the drop-zone. Having expected stonefall traps, perhaps bolts, and being met with bodies instead confused the goblins, put a falter in their step. The tower's height was perfectly calculated so that not all of the falls were instantly fatal. Moans and cries of pain met the goblins as they approached the entrance. Suddenly none of them felt like singing anymore.
"That's the fate of fools and of the weak!" The chief cried, dashing forward and slicing the throat of a dropped goblin who had been desperately trying to crawl. "No mere cage trap shall hold us!" Lifting his spear to the air he managed to keep morale from breaking right away.
That's when the second wave fell. Blood from a near miss splashes on the chief's face. A recruit tosses his spear on the ground and shouts "This-! This isn't what I signed up for!" He turns and runs. At the chief's signal the coward's back is filled with arrows. The rest of the goblins gulp nervously. They are committed now, not only because the punishment for desertion was death, no exceptions, but because when they'd turned to fire on the coward, they'd all noted that the distant gates in the wall were closed now. What they'd all assumed was the carelessness of a people unused to war was actually a well timed trap. They are locked in with the minds that had prepared such an unsettling welcome as this...
They turned again towards the entrance, now not inviting but foreboding. And as they trudge through a landscape of broken bodies a haunting refrain floats to them from inside the fort: a single dwarven phrase being repeated by many voices. The goblins tremble and a younger one leans closer to a scarred elder, "What is it they're saying, Xuspas?" The older goblin shakes his head slowly. "Their saying this: You came here to die. You came here to die."

[King Mir]

Impaling heads on pikes is mentioned in dwarf fortress talk as possibly making it in this release for settlements that goblins raze. It's also possible that they'll be found in occupied settlements too, in which case they're probably already in.

[Vlad]

@RockBiterSon wow that was a really good story. I can't wait for invaders to have more realistic morale now.

And about executing prisoners. I don't think Dwarves would go as far as to mutilate bodies and put them on pikes like goblins do. I would expect them to hang them instead and just hang them from the Fort's wall to display to invaders.

I also think they should be more like your fort's dwarves in that they have emotions and fears and stuff. I would love to look at the cheif goblin and be able to see that he absolutely detests spiders and then pit him into a room with hundreds of them

[StubbornAlcoholic]

I don't know. I think Weenog raises a valid point.

The game already allows you to dispatch enemies in damn gruesome ways with a little bit of creativity, the universe itself is pretty dark without all the player humour the game is known for. I mean, you can gouge out eyes and all kinds of nasty things in Adventurer mode.

However, I don't think there's any need for torture rack items or anything, because it crosses that boundary of just being violent and unpleasant for no sensible reason. While Dwarves in our forts may do twisted or violent things, ultimately it's because the player is ingeniously sculpting their behaviour like that for their own amusement. Example: "Dwarven childcare training".

Right now I feel like burning a Goblin commander alive in magma is a horrific but vengeful and Dwarfy payback for the pain he's undoubtedly inflicted on my fortress. But using some kind of specific game mechanic to order my Dwarves to torture him for years and then spread his innards all over the fort walls seems a little bit less justifiable.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I throw a Goblin down a 15 storey pit onto a bed of spikes, it's usually:

A: A release of my day-to-day stresses.
B: A fun but ultimately secondary digression from running the fort.

Making a "Slowly stab Goblin agonisingly onto pike" option would start making outright cruelty a staple of the game with importance rivalling the actual Fort maintenance, which starts to make the game a little bit nastier in the wrong kind of way IMO.

Anyway, when I want to show the Goblins I mean business I already "kind of" do this anyway, just in slightly less unpleasant fashion. Just designate a custom stockpile of only Goblin bones (or skulls, if you really like) and place it outside your Fort entrance. As you cut down swathes of Goblins, the next attackers will be greeted by a mountain of their comrades' skulls

[Putnam]

Dwarves think that torture is unthinkable, by the way.

[Catsup]

ethics only matter for world-gen though; and there are many other "unthinkable" things that occur in dwarven forts such as: killing of (initially) friendly elven and sometimes human traders (dwarves shun killing of neutrals i think), pitting of captured enemies in drowning chambers, corpse grinders, forgotten beast pits, and rat pits; dwarven children and nobles mysteriously going missing after going to deconstruct a wall in a room with a bridge in it after the door mysteriously locks behind them, and never been heard of again. Just some examples i can think of right away.

oh and @ StubbornAlcoholic, adding torture to the game does not necessarily make it nasty. Players may choose to put goblins on pikes and torture them, or they may choose not to. Either way even without the pike option players still think of a variety of ways to "deal with" goblin captives that are just as violent. About fort maintenance, i think goblin sieges are a normal part of that; and thus impaling goblins on pikes and adding a fear/demoralization system to deal with that part of the game (goblin sieges) is a necessity, not just senseless sadistic violence. Isn't really about the torture, the pike system is about showing goblins whats coming to them; stockpiles with goblin bodyparts doesnt really feel the same...

[Putnam]

ethics only matter for world-gen though

Not true; the EAT_SAPIENT_KILL ethic determines whether or not you can butcher siegers. Besides that, the reason they only matter for worldgen right now is because Toady hasn't gotten around to including features for all the rest.

The rest of the things you described are player actions, not dwarven actions. Dwarves do not pit captured enemies in drowning chambers, you do. Mysterious disappearances are your doing. Including spikes etc. in the game for dwarves to use suggests that the dwarves themselves do that, which they simply do not.