Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kontako]

Hello!

Recently I've been thinking over the subject of vampires in game, I thought it was a bit unusual how as soon as you drink the blood of a vampire you instantly become one.
I wanted to suggest a new system for the transformation from a regular mortal into a vampire... get this...

What if as soon as someone drinks the blood of a vampire or is cursed by a deity during world gen nothing visible happens and the victim walks away feeling no different, yet he is cursed. Say about 24 hours after the death of our victim (it doesn't matter how they died, just aslong as they did) or until the next evening the victim will raise from the grave as a vampire. The vampire would claim a new identity, say by killing someone then claiming to be that person, the vampire could then hide the corpse in his grave, or just throw it away and no one will be any wiser. <-- ( an example of how it would go in world gen)

Just an idea, but I'd think this would add more depth to the 'mythology' of vampires existing in game

also sorry if this has already been mentioned, in the brief search I did; I did not find anything like this mentioned. 

[assasin]

Vampires [and most the rest of the game] could probably use a decent overhaul. In real life there have been hundreds of different legends that would probably fall under the vampiric archetype. I'd probably prefer it if each time someone is cursed they get arandmly selected set of traits that fall under the heading of vampiric and their vampiric decendents would inherit those traits.

 I've said it before with werebeasts, it would make the game a lot more rich if stuff that didn't fall under the same fantasy heading would fit within the game. Maybe Arachne was not a werespider. but she was a woman turned into a spider by a curse from a god.exactly the same thing with vampires. 


Sure I can see this idea one random set of vampiric traits. But another set could be they start their transformation after they've killed someone. or maybe if someone dies after being attacked by a vampire they'll rise as a vampire.

[Neonivek]

Well Vampires are unfinished and they were going to be much more randomised until Toady had to finish them ASAP to get the next version out.

Werewolves are in a similar boat but not to the same extent compared to the features Vampires were going to have (for example powers that manifest from ancient vampires)

So Dwarf Fortress was going to have many kinds of vampires with varying abilities, conditions, and methods of infection.

[kontako]

Very true, my only intention was to get the idea out there before any form of update happens to the night creatures and hope something interesting would happen.
lets just hope the mythological creatures follow their original concepts, instead of the ones made up by 'pop culture' (shudders)

[Neonivek]

Very true, my only intention was to get the idea out there before any form of update happens to the night creatures and hope something interesting would happen.
lets just hope the mythological creatures follow their original concepts, instead of the ones made up by 'pop culture' (shudders)

No problem, ideas for vampires in advance is perfectly good avenue for the suggestion board.

Just informing people who do not know that Vampires are not done yet. Which in fact would give all the more reason to suggest ways to improve/expand them.

[Gaybarowner]

I just hope toady makes up a original type of an idea and not just some famous pop culture idea

[RockBiterSon]

Another very common element to vampires is enchantment and domination. Perhaps you could force peasants/companions/enemies to do things, mesmerize them, tell them to forget that suspicious blood stain on my collar, Have them fight for my amusement, ect. Related is seduction. Vampires are often sexual deviants, from homosexual tendencies to the stealing (and corruption) of pure young maidens. all That would be a very complex and time-consuming mechanic though.
Something that is very obviously missing is regeneration for vampires.
Another is the ability to consciously convert your victims into more vampires, often the new vampire is dominated and the slave if their creator. Thus one can have dens of vampires who either follow a leader or scheme against eachother.
The ability to turn into a swarm of bats, mist, ect, and fly for a short time would be neat.
Needing to return to a graveyard or coffin would be neat if coffins and graveyards were actually a thing in adventure mode. Better would be being destroyed or weakened by the sun. You are a NIGHT creature after all.
Different ways to discover that you have become a vampire have allready been mentioned.
Finally vampires should be harder to kill (even withou regeneration) certain types of vampires should come back unless a particular condition is met. Killed by a weapon of a particular material (including ash stake) buried or disposed of a certain way, burning the body, decapitating the body, burying it on holy ground (perhaps of the Deity that originated the curse) killed durig a certain time of day or during a certain phase of the moon. The possibilities are endless, and finding out what a particular vampire's weakness is should be difficult and interesting on it's own right. Like finding a clue at the location where they were originally curse. Reading notes left behind by past vampire slayers. NOT by asking random peasants for random trivia. Finding a vampire and discovering a vampire's weakness should be worthy of a quest in its own right. And there should be penalties for getting it wrong, the most obvious being that it rises again and now is angry and chasing you down, or perhaps has taken a new identity and is biding its time.
Mixing and matching these would really make vampires more fun to kill and to play as. Most of these examples are difficult and time-consuming to implement though and most require other changes the most obvious being handling the way conversation and supply of information is handled. A vampire can't hide its identity in the current system which should be half the fun of tracking one down and significant fun in playing one. If every peasant in town can point you towards the nearest vampire and they announce themselves boldly at first provocation... Well I realize they are incomplete, but there's lots of possibilities to be had. Peasants could well intentionally point you in the wrong direction. The suspect may be a scapegoat or the subject of a witch hunt. And obviously a vampire should profess his innocence unless he is cornered by overwhelming evidence againts him. In which case he might, instead of fighting, turn into mist and flee to his lair. Where if you hadn't done your research he will be completely safe from you. I think procedureally created vampire would really lend themselves well to this type of investigative play.

Of course I don't see any of this happening any time soon. Perhaps the only realistic suggestion for now is that vampires should get some degree of regenerative abilities, and some degree of weakness to daylight.

[Helari]

Another very common element to vampires is enchantment and domination. Perhaps you could force peasants/companions/enemies to do things, mesmerize them, tell them to forget that suspicious blood stain on my collar, Have them fight for my amusement, ect. Related is seduction. Vampires are often sexual deviants, from homosexual tendencies to the stealing (and corruption) of pure young maidens. all That would be a very complex and time-consuming mechanic though.

I read that toady doesn't want this game to be remembered as "that game with the shitting, raping dwarves" which means that some distasteful or just simply unnecessary things are not going to be ever simulated by DF.

Also reading being gay under sexual deviancy isn't correct anymore.

[Vlad]

I really hope Toady eventually changes his stance on sex and other stuff that some people find unthinkable to have in a videogame. I just don't see how it's any worse than torturing and dismembering children or going on genocides, both of which players do all the time.

[Gaybarowner]

I really hope Toady eventually changes his stance on sex and other stuff that some people find unthinkable to have in a videogame. I just don't see how it's any worse than torturing and dismembering children or going on genocides, both of which players do all the time.

stop virtually killing children you virtual murderer or I will send you to virtual court

[RockBiterSon]

Another very common element to vampires is enchantment and domination. Perhaps you could force peasants/companions/enemies to do things, mesmerize them, tell them to forget that suspicious blood stain on my collar, Have them fight for my amusement, ect. Related is seduction. Vampires are often sexual deviants, from homosexual tendencies to the stealing (and corruption) of pure young maidens. all That would be a very complex and time-consuming mechanic though.

I read that toady doesn't want this game to be remembered as "that game with the shitting, raping dwarves" which means that some distasteful or just simply unnecessary things are not going to be ever simulated by DF.

Also reading being gay under sexual deviancy isn't correct anymore.

Indeed. It is an outdated belief. I was just listing as many vampire tropes as I could. And yeah, I didn't imagine it as a "Rape the human Pump Operator?" option. Rather I was thinking of some way of convincing villagers to follow you into the forest where you could do whatever you want without anyone else seeing you.

[10ebbor10]

I really hope Toady eventually changes his stance on sex and other stuff that some people find unthinkable to have in a videogame. I just don't see how it's any worse than torturing and dismembering children or going on genocides, both of which players do all the time.

stop virtually killing children you virtual murderer or I will send you to virtual court

Yup, you're not supposed to do those things.

The children dismembrement things haven't been put into the game because they Toady wanted them to be, but as a result of the detailed combat engine and such.

Now, I highly doubt the whole sex thing* will ever be expanded beyond requiring the dwarves to occupy the same tile before impregnation occurs, because it serves no real purpose ** and certainly won't be worth the troubles that'll spring up.


* Does not include Romance and relationships
** Really, state any bonus a more detailed system would have for the average DF player***. Voyeurism and Ubil Meatgodding don't count.
*** The real average player. Not the cliched murdering psychopath

[Vlad]

I really hope Toady eventually changes his stance on sex and other stuff that some people find unthinkable to have in a videogame. I just don't see how it's any worse than torturing and dismembering children or going on genocides, both of which players do all the time.

stop virtually killing children you virtual murderer or I will send you to virtual court

Yup, you're not supposed to do those things.

The children dismembrement things haven't been put into the game because they Toady wanted them to be, but as a result of the detailed combat engine and such.

Now, I highly doubt the whole sex thing* will ever be expanded beyond requiring the dwarves to occupy the same tile before impregnation occurs, because it serves no real purpose ** and certainly won't be worth the troubles that'll spring up.


* Does not include Romance and relationships
** Really, state any bonus a more detailed system would have for the average DF player***. Voyeurism and Ubil Meatgodding don't count.
*** The real average player. Not the cliched murdering psychopath

I'm not asking for it to be detailed or anything. You make it seem that I would want a combat log for sex, which I don't, because that would just be disgusting and unnecessary. I just think that sex should actually exist in game in the from of two creatures occupying the same space before anyone can get pregnant. In worldgen only raping by invading forces would probably be documented (If anyone every saw the movie "The Vikings" the main plot of the story was that the English Queen was raped by King Ragnar of the Vikings after he killed the King and her son was Heir to the English and Viking throne if I remember correctly, so it can set forth stories in Legends and I don't think anyone can argue that it wouldn't add to the story)

[RockBiterSon]

Indeed. We're getting away from the topic at hand but that would allow for things like bastards, a staple of fantasy worlds. That doesn't require sex, but just more complex relationships. It would be more strange to be able to do that in adventure mode, but then again if you want to be chased out of town after being found in bed with the mayor's daughter, or something... I don't think that's what Toady has in mind for the game even though things like the charming womanizer rouge are also fantasy staples. Or, to bring us back to topic, the vampire and his bride.