Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DoomOnion]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122652.0

[Rolepgeek]

Well I spoke to Girlinhat about it, and she was somewhat helpful. Rather than design or balance a prestige class, she said that what I was doing wasn't what prestige classes were for. I'm wondering if I could use a custom archetype instead? It wouldn't make much of a difference until 6th or seventh level, but still.

[Bluerobin]

I don't want this to turn in to some big numbers debate, so argument is in the spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What you forgot about muskets is how they were actually used. Take that group of musketmen and group of crossbowmen and pit them both against a third team of knights in heavy armor (for max impact, get the most expensive heavy armor you can find). One thing I will say is that I'm not super familiar with how Pathfinder guns work, but with the numbers you've given the musketmen will fair significantly better. If you instead modify both original teams so they're half "ranged" and half heavily armored melee you should get similar results. Muskets were essentially short range weapons (hence the prevalence of multiple-rank formations and bayonets) and were so popular because they didn't care about the 16-20 AC of the knights running at them while the crossbowmen were scrambling to get shots through the armor. Now I guess you might have to scale things up so that you have more than one musketeer and more than one knight, but the difference should be relatively obvious if you play with it a bit and change your assumption that muskets are a ranged weapon.

Anyway, it sounds like you guys have a fun campaign going and it's made me read about half of the Pathfinder SRD site so far. That hasn't been great for my work output, to be honest.

[DoomOnion]

Well I spoke to Girlinhat about it, and she was somewhat helpful. Rather than design or balance a prestige class, she said that what I was doing wasn't what prestige classes were for. I'm wondering if I could use a custom archetype instead? It wouldn't make much of a difference until 6th or seventh level, but still.

Well, if I remember correctly, you are using one or two archetypes already, right? and two archetypes or more cannot be taken at the same time if they both alter the same ability... meaning that it would be damn hard to design something like that

[Rolepgeek]

Actually, no. I'm only using one, and it alters two things: One, how much of my Arcane Pool I get. And two, the Magus Arcana I would normally get at third level. So not too hard. The difficult part is in ensuring it's balanced.

[Weirdsound]

Alright. Almost done with my character. Two issues remain.

1: How much money do we have to buy starting gear? And where on the downloadable template in the OP do we list our inventory other than Weapons and Armor?
2: I find the homebrew armor rules to be a bit overwhelming. Once I have everything else finished, would somebody be so kind as to pick my armor out for me if I upload my sheet somewhere?

Edit:

And a third that I forgot.

3: Speaking of overwhelming... SO MANY FEATS! I don't know where to start. Can anybody suggest something that is good for a cleric, or helps make up for the fact that I decided to use DEX as my dump stat?

[Rolepgeek]

What type of cleric are you playing?

And spoiler back? I like to debat, if you don't enjoy it, tell me and I'll stop.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While the musketeers would fare wonderfully against knights, to a degree, it's still not that much more effective. And it's in specific situations. And very short range. My knights, if on horseback, can barge from farther away than 40 feet. Not even counting that with eight times as many shots going out? Not saying guns aren't effective at times. Just...I wouldn't have most of my army made of them. They're so expensive they'd only be made to the highest degree, to decrease misfire chance, and given to experts. But, I like this. So let's say, for example, each side has one knight with them. Just one, to make it easier. Though as a side note, I wouldn't send heavily armored people against musketeers, I'd send people with tower shields, for total cover. That knight is on horseback. The one with the musketeers has four crossbow bolts flying at him every round. Each has a 1 in ten chance of piercing his armor. Half that if they're more than 120 ft away. If his horse is running, and the two groups start at maximum range from each other, then that's 5x I believe 35 ft a round, or about 175 ft per round. From 1200 ft, that means it should take him about eight rounds. Seven times four crossbow bolts. 28 of them. One is bound to hit. Maybe two. And then he has to deal with their knight. The musketeers has been sending out one shot every two rouns, which will only pierce armor if within forty feet. Which means if the knight is starting from maximum distance, and his mount is running to get close, the musketeers gets two shots; one against normal AC, almost certain to do jack squat, and one against touch AC, which may miss. If it did hit, the knight still isn't dead, as 1d12, just like 1d10 , probably won't kill him. But in the ensuing fight between the two knights? The knight on the side of the musketeers would probably win, barely, then die in the fight with the Crossbowman, and we're sortof back to square one. Guns are handy in the skirmish style small engagement battles of DnD with huge amounts of money. After all, your enemies will probably be using that money to buy armor. But in mass battle between nations? They aren't cost effective. They're for( in my mind) elite units meant to stop and break apart enemy cavalry charges and armored tercios and the like. I would just far rather have a group of people with rapid reload, improved initiative, and light crossbows, then a small group of people with muskets and...I'm not sure what feats would be good. Oh, and if we're really going for volley tactics? Heavy crossbowmen with point blank shot and far shot, supported by longbowmen with point blank shot and rapid shot. Speed vs. distance.

Edit: use the average starting money for a cleric, and I'll find you your armor if you tell me how much you're willing to spend on it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Just to point out, buns WERE mostly ineffective in their early years; sounds like Pathfinder is simulating those early years rather than, say, the 1600's. Presumably so classic fantasy heroes are still viable.

[Rolepgeek]

So, weird sound, I found an armor set that only costs 40 GP, and gets you an AC of 20, not counting dexterity. It does slow you down to 20 ft though. A slightlY more expensive set of 50 GP will get you a 17 AC, but you still have 30 ft speed. In both cases you have a heavy shield and this is factored in. In both cases you are wearing medium armor.

[Weirdsound]

I'm Lawful Neutral (Channels positive energy), and using Law(Slavery) and Fire domains.

I'm sure I'll put up a proper post explaining my characters religious views, but the short version is that he is Christian, however after several years of wandering and experiencing hatred he has come to the conclusion that is okay to use infernal powers in self defense, to punish those who are excessively wicked or chaotic, and to bring order to savages. He tends to focus his studies and teachings more on Biblical Law than on the virtues of love and charity.

[Rolepgeek]

Okay, what I meant was; are you a healer cleric, a blaster cleric, a buffer cleric, or a basher cleric?

[Weirdsound]

Huh. This is my first Cleric (And my first or second D&D/Pathfinder character in years, depending on if I get to play my first session of this or organized play first) so I didn't know I had to make that choice. From the way I understand how the class was worded, I get to pick whatever spells I need from the entire Cleric List at the start of each day, so I didn't think specialization was needed.

I think as I am, I can cast any cleric spell that isn't chaotic, and my Ability Scores are as follows. I'm kinda new, so if you think I'd be best as one of those Cleric Types in particular, let me know.

(Racial Mods for Devilspawn Tieflings are +2 Wis, +2 Con, -2 Cha)
STR 14
DEX 7
CON 14 (Originally 12)
INT 14
WIS 18 (Originally 16)
CHA 10 (Originally 12)

[DoomOnion]

I think you can afford to dump charisma, and having 7 dex in a world where gunpowder is common is... not exactly smart, I would boost it up to at least 12.

[Rolepgeek]

You do, but feats, ability scores, and equipment aren't things you get to repackage at the beginning of each day. Thus, you should make a choice. From the looks of it, you're a combat cleric; buff yourself and friends, send out some damage to enemies if you can, then enter the fray and heal any allies who get into mortal danger nearby.

Time to look for feats.

But yeah, do you want higher AC, lower speed, or vice versa?

I think he wants charisma for the undead turnings. But yeah, low dexterity is rarely, if ever, good.

[Weirdsound]

Do we have a Face in the party? I'll dump CHA for Dex and not bother investing in Diplomacy if I know we have somebody else to do that.