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[nanomage]

Hello!

I'd like to make a proposal to incorporate fliying creatures into the existing projectile/minecart framework.

Right now, fliers are just kind of detached from the world with its physics and mechanics: they are free to go in any of 26 possible directions and have no inertia nor momentum. This was good as a rough approximation, but now that there are actual flying (falling) objects and creatures in the world, it's looking weird. I suggest a generalization of minecart and projectile framework to include fliers.

Instead of just modelling the birds and alike with a single [FLIER] tag (sometimes attached to a bodypart), I suggest tags like [LIFT:N], [FLAP:N], [FLOAT:N] attached to certain bodyparts or even wielded objects.
[LIFT:N] tag would mean that the affected bodypart is capable of a force proportional or somehow correlated with movement speed.
[FLAP:N] tag would mean that tha same force may be generated at will at the expense of fatique points.
[FLOAT:N] would mean that the lifting force of value up to N may be generated (or even just plain "is generated") regardless of anything, and exist to model levitating wizards, cave floaters, or methane-bladdered dragons, if they get into the game.
Apart from these tags, flying creatures I believe should be treated exactly like projectiles or derailed minecarts.
These changed would make birds much faster, their movements much more erratic and unpredictable, and their attacks potentially more deadly, if the game learns to take the speed of the attacking creature itself into account when calculating attacks. Most of all though, I believe it would make flying cratures much more feasible and realistic.

The largest obstacle as I see it would be programming a new pathfinding and generally flying AI to respect these rules of movement and utilise them for its advantage. However, as we seem to not have any flier AI right now, I suppose something is planned to appear at some point, and I believe that this suggestion is both more fun and more consistent that the old-fashioned tile-by-tile flight.

sorry if already suggested, it's just that the search by "flight lift" only yielded me methane-bladdered dragons. awesome idea.

[Revanchist]

I think it sounds interesting, especially the proposed tags.

[SuicideJunkie]

I would hope that it would make birds less erratic and unpredictable.
Fliers should have some momentum and a minimum turn radius at high speed.

Rather than moving in any direction, they'd have to go in straight lines and graceful curves like charging mounts are supposed to.

[Dunamisdeos]

As I understand it, the main obstacle with flight as it stand right now is the pathing issue.

I think those tags are a really cool idea, though. with the [FLAP:N] tag, is [N] the amount of fatigue-per-flap? Maybe a [FLAP:N:X], where X is also the lift generated?

[nanomage]

As I understand it, the main obstacle with flight as it stand right now is the pathing issue.

I think those tags are a really cool idea, though. with the [FLAP:N] tag, is [N] the amount of fatigue-per-flap? Maybe a [FLAP:N:X], where X is also the lift generated?

I meant the flap tag to include the generated force first of all, because I don't know how fatique is expended in general. If it's is as easy as spending a certain number of points per action than it would be great to be able to specify that number in the raws.

[Mesa]

inb4 too much force per flap and Kea Space Programs are to follow.

[Gaybarowner]

Hm this idea I like perhaps a weight limit to said [FLIER] body parts to show if it is holding pass the weight limit it causes flight to be impossible until said weight limit is dropped such as playing as a adventurer carrying 10 tons of boulders

[Telgin]

I would hope that it would make birds less erratic and unpredictable.
Fliers should have some momentum and a minimum turn radius at high speed.

Rather than moving in any direction, they'd have to go in straight lines and graceful curves like charging mounts are supposed to.

Didn't Toady implement something like this for ground based movement in the upcoming version?  It's possible it will apply to fliers as well, which should have interesting results.

Anyway, as a whole I approve of this suggestion.

[Revanchist]

I believe he stated that feature will be most evident during sprints. When you have a lot of momentum, it's supposed to be harder to stop quickly.

[zkenyon]

without very largescale AI modification, I bet that birds would constantly be flying into mountains.

although that would yield some interesting messages in game.

Serves them right for stealing that artifact wooden bracelet.

[nanomage]

I believe he stated that feature will be most evident during sprints. When you have a lot of momentum, it's supposed to be harder to stop quickly.

Toady said that sprining critters would be still able to stop instantly. The downside is that they'd have to build up sprinting speed again in any other direction. Turning in curves is only required to change the direction without losing all the speed. That looks okay for land movement for me, but in the air it should be different because the stopping force you can gain from air drag is just much less than that of the solid ground friction.

[Ozyton]

Stopping instantly could result in climbing a few Z-levels then, but maybe that would still be too quick?

[YelDohan]

I want to build a wooden glider with [LIFT:N] and send Nobles troops into a battlefield.

[Revanchist]

I believe he stated that feature will be most evident during sprints. When you have a lot of momentum, it's supposed to be harder to stop quickly.

Toady said that sprining critters would be still able to stop instantly. The downside is that they'd have to build up sprinting speed again in any other direction. Turning in curves is only required to change the direction without losing all the speed. That looks okay for land movement for me, but in the air it should be different because the stopping force you can gain from air drag is just much less than that of the solid ground friction.

Yes. Thank you. I had forgotten the specifics...

[Dunamisdeos]

I want to build a wooden glider with [LIFT:N] and send Nobles troops into a battlefield.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The +Dwarven Glider+ drops a rock! The Troll is slain. YUB YUB.

At any rate, my final opinion on this is that it is a cool idea. Frankly, I'm down for anything that allows more detail in our critters / behaviors.