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[Yolan]

A thought...

Right now it seems like players in this game mainly fit into two camps. Those who are starting out and are easily robbed, and those who have figured out how to make basically impenetrable fortresses. The problem is that people in the super vaults are not going to be risking their characters robbing others, so you end up with a really unbalanced situation that stops becoming fun rather quickly.

So... an idea to deal with this. Rather than just having restrictions on how many pit bulls etc. are allowed, why not have more expensive items so that people who have thousands in savings can go attack other people who have thousands in savings. You might have a vault that keeps out the rif raff, but if another rich person can buy and buy tools that blast right through it, you need to start thinking of more devious methods.

[crfog]

Well, somebody beat my traps.  I'm not sure how, as when I went to fix everything out of place, I missed replacing a triggered switchplate and died to my own device before I could reset it and see the replays.  I really have no idea how they beat it...I wish I could have seen the replays as I suspect some foul play was at hand.  My wife was killed in a location she shouldnt have been reached at.  It's like they basically walked over 15 dogs without sleeping or killing them.  Well, time to try and make it harder. 

There is a key I have discovered to this game - think of how the leaderboard/menu works.  Those with higher values at home will appear higher.  So, I design my entire system ahead of time on paper/in my head.  Then I make sure that each time I leave my house I have approximately 30 dollars left.  No more.  Then I'm not exactly a juicy target.  If you find my traps before they're complete, there's likely a shortcut built in so I can reach the vault without having to run through each and every trigger until I get everything just the way I want.  Then I set it and see what wanders into my web

[crfog]

After some quick distance measurement, I think I see how my puzzle was beaten.  Someone cut through a single point in a wall which allowed them to kill my wife.  Then, I think, the state of each successive attempt was saved instead of being reset, allowing people to come back repeatedly and use tools to bypass my puzzles.  Going to remake it with some necessary changes and see how it fares.

[ScriptWolf]

Well, somebody beat my traps.  I'm not sure how, as when I went to fix everything out of place, I missed replacing a triggered switchplate and died to my own device before I could reset it and see the replays.  I really have no idea how they beat it...I wish I could have seen the replays as I suspect some foul play was at hand.  My wife was killed in a location she shouldnt have been reached at.  It's like they basically walked over 15 dogs without sleeping or killing them.  Well, time to try and make it harder. 

There is a key I have discovered to this game - think of how the leaderboard/menu works.  Those with higher values at home will appear higher.  So, I design my entire system ahead of time on paper/in my head.  Then I make sure that each time I leave my house I have approximately 30 dollars left.  No more.  Then I'm not exactly a juicy target.  If you find my traps before they're complete, there's likely a shortcut built in so I can reach the vault without having to run through each and every trigger until I get everything just the way I want.  Then I set it and see what wanders into my web

I think that might have been me haha xD I have started to focus more on the robbing side of things and satisfaction of breaking a super vault than the money

[Yolan]

I'm quite proud of the set up I have at the moment, althought it is still relatively easy to rob the mechanism is pretty good.

Basically it's a cube in the middle of the grounds that you have to walk around in the right combination to unlock. On the inside is a chihuahua following you. So, its a bit like a safe combination lock, only, if you get it wrong the dog falls in a hole, and pit bulls are released.

I still need to beef up the gate. Some guy just crow barred his way through all three doors and took my five hundred bucks. He also shot all my dogs the bastard.

I like this kind of design because there is lots of wide open space around it with no dogs coming at you right away. It looks safe enough to try robbing, while also a little mysterious. How do I open this cube? So it lures people in rather than forcing them right away. It needs some more work, but I like offering people at least a possibility of getting inside. otherwise, whats the point?

[crfog]

Well, somebody beat my traps.  I'm not sure how, as when I went to fix everything out of place, I missed replacing a triggered switchplate and died to my own device before I could reset it and see the replays.  I really have no idea how they beat it...I wish I could have seen the replays as I suspect some foul play was at hand.  My wife was killed in a location she shouldnt have been reached at.  It's like they basically walked over 15 dogs without sleeping or killing them.  Well, time to try and make it harder. 

There is a key I have discovered to this game - think of how the leaderboard/menu works.  Those with higher values at home will appear higher.  So, I design my entire system ahead of time on paper/in my head.  Then I make sure that each time I leave my house I have approximately 30 dollars left.  No more.  Then I'm not exactly a juicy target.  If you find my traps before they're complete, there's likely a shortcut built in so I can reach the vault without having to run through each and every trigger until I get everything just the way I want.  Then I set it and see what wanders into my web

I think that might have been me haha xD I have started to focus more on the robbing side of things and satisfaction of breaking a super vault than the money

Well, congrats - I've just completed my beefed up version; you're welcome to come try your hand at it again   .  Though I can understand peoples frustration with some of the really hard puzzles (especially the ones with electrified floor plates right at the entrance from letting their family die) I see a lot of people who clearly have an affinity and desire to break these puzzles.  The only way I can work toward something so big is by going after the places that pay out pretty large (the top two pages in the menu only).  I find I get about 50/50 traps that I can beat pretty easily with my standard 4 dog meat, 4 crowbar and people who are simply making new characters to rush back into a fortress, thus leaving an easy 2k for the taking.  I like this dynamic because it allows for all kinds of play styles.  As someone mentioned earlier, once I get nearer to completing my full creation, I tend to become more cautious, sometimes just picking off a running wife and foregoing walking into unknown mazes entirely.  Rather take 50% of the spoils and get out than die and spend another hour building my traps back up. 

Though I completely respect some peoples position regarding leaving the family members alone, I see a poorly guarded family as indicative of how much that player cares for them.  If they're easy to get to, they're better off dead in my books.

[Neyvn]

Damn I was hoping to build a special trap, one that does a Red Light Green light style thing. Where if you take the correct path, you find a safe spot for the Red Light, but if you take the wrong one, its death. BUT, I can't figure out how to do the Timer, using cats and dogs makes it hard because of the way they work, you can't just make them rotate around a thing cause they need to be moving a certain way. There really needs to be a timer method that I can't think of that makes things turn on and off after X ticks...

[crfog]

Damn I was hoping to build a special trap, one that does a Red Light Green light style thing. Where if you take the correct path, you find a safe spot for the Red Light, but if you take the wrong one, its death. BUT, I can't figure out how to do the Timer, using cats and dogs makes it hard because of the way they work, you can't just make them rotate around a thing cause they need to be moving a certain way. There really needs to be a timer method that I can't think of that makes things turn on and off after X ticks...

One option for this is to use your family.  Remember, they will always take the most direct path to the exit.  Make them some sort of trail with all your timed switches on it.  If you space them out properly, you could get some really interesting patterns going.  Even better, you could design it so if it isnt solved by the time your last family member is about to leave, something switches on which prevents the puzzle from ever being completed

[Neyvn]

Damn I was hoping to build a special trap, one that does a Red Light Green light style thing. Where if you take the correct path, you find a safe spot for the Red Light, but if you take the wrong one, its death. BUT, I can't figure out how to do the Timer, using cats and dogs makes it hard because of the way they work, you can't just make them rotate around a thing cause they need to be moving a certain way. There really needs to be a timer method that I can't think of that makes things turn on and off after X ticks...

One option for this is to use your family.  Remember, they will always take the most direct path to the exit.  Make them some sort of trail with all your timed switches on it.  If you space them out properly, you could get some really interesting patterns going.  Even better, you could design it so if it isnt solved by the time your last family member is about to leave, something switches on which prevents the puzzle from ever being completed

Won't work like that, Family doesn't activate Switches, blocks their path...

[Neyvn]

GAH JUST REALIZED, HOUSE IS NOT SYMMETRICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crfog]

Bah, I completely forgot about the path blocking thing.  IMO switches shouldn't affect pathing.  Hopefully thats a change coming.  In general, having everything block the family's path makes it much too easy for the robber to camp the entrance and wait.  Only solution I've got come up with is the massed pitbulls and a gate that closes behind the player, eliminating any chance of contact between the robber and the family.  It's be nice if they could instead play a tactical role. 

I'm really enjoying the process of perfecting this trap.  Interesting to see how some people try to solve it by pressing every button available.  Had to go back and make some changes when I realized that by doing so, a player could equip a certain set of items and JUST reach the vault.  After some changes, I think I've forced the player to actually get the puzzle right in order to succeed.  We shall see what awaits me when I log in tomorrow.

[Aavak]

Just got started with this game today as I stumbled across Cernunnos videos and instantly feel in love with the concept (great job with the videos, by the way).  Once I got a look at the tile pieces after buying the game, I set out to design the most frustratingly hard puzzle I could, deciding that a combination lock with multiple moving components would be the most difficult for a robber to overcome.  I've gone through three different iterations this afternoon and am finally happy with it.  I love the ability to play back the recordings - that's how I learned from each iteration; seeing how my traps were defeated really helped me to improve them.  Currently sitting at around 20k worth.  Pretty good considering the people above me don't seem to have their families surviving and I do.

If anyone comes across my puzzle, give it a go (and maybe tell me what my name is...I feel like there should be a way to see your own name in game).  If you enter a puzzle with about 20 pitbulls coming at you and forcing you inside a self closing door, you know you've found the right one 

Hi Crfog, I'm really glad my videos were able to introduce some people to this game I'll keep an eye out to see if I can find a puzzle like you describe.

One thing with using pitbulls to guard the families approach is that the robber can simply put dogs to sleep or kill them, and the rest of the dogs will be unable to cross over the body of the sleeping mutt (I'm not sure if this also counts for dead dogs) but the family can. That still means it's possible to just wait for the family as long as you have a way of putting the dogs to sleep, assuming it's just a 1 or 2 wide corridor they're coming down.

[crfog]

Just got started with this game today as I stumbled across Cernunnos videos and instantly feel in love with the concept (great job with the videos, by the way).  Once I got a look at the tile pieces after buying the game, I set out to design the most frustratingly hard puzzle I could, deciding that a combination lock with multiple moving components would be the most difficult for a robber to overcome.  I've gone through three different iterations this afternoon and am finally happy with it.  I love the ability to play back the recordings - that's how I learned from each iteration; seeing how my traps were defeated really helped me to improve them.  Currently sitting at around 20k worth.  Pretty good considering the people above me don't seem to have their families surviving and I do.

If anyone comes across my puzzle, give it a go (and maybe tell me what my name is...I feel like there should be a way to see your own name in game).  If you enter a puzzle with about 20 pitbulls coming at you and forcing you inside a self closing door, you know you've found the right one 

Hi Crfog, I'm really glad my videos were able to introduce some people to this game I'll keep an eye out to see if I can find a puzzle like you describe.

One thing with using pitbulls to guard the families approach is that the robber can simply put dogs to sleep or kill them, and the rest of the dogs will be unable to cross over the body of the sleeping mutt (I'm not sure if this also counts for dead dogs) but the family can. That still means it's possible to just wait for the family as long as you have a way of putting the dogs to sleep, assuming it's just a 1 or 2 wide corridor they're coming down.

I'm attempting to overcome this blocking technique by making my pitbull corridor 5 wide, having them approach from both sides and not giving enough space between you and the pitbulls to allow for you to spend turns putting them to sleep.  My last attempt failed as I gave too much space between the player and dogs, still allowing for a block to be made.  Going to try to perfect it today. 

Logged on this morning to see just how dedicated some people are to breaking a good puzzle.  Had about 110 tries before someone broke it and the last 40 or so were clearly the same person.  He kept coming in, and slowly tunneling to the switches in the walls in order to see which ones needed to be triggered.  He finally got to see them all, learned the combo and came back with the right tools to overcome the rest of the puzzle once the final area of trapdoors were engaged.  So, time to redesign.  Need to come up with a puzzle for which the solution cannot be gleamed in such a manner.  So, either I stick with the combination and reduce it to two combinations, allowing me to bury the working components deeper or I move on to some hidden triggers using chihuahuas or cats, once again burying them deep enough nobody can realistically piece together the workings of the puzzle without a ridiculous amount of effort.

[Neyvn]

Any walls that you build need to be at least 9 thick if you have a secret code behind them, same with doors if they carry crowbars. Unless you don't have enough cash to repair the walls your code will never be easily broken by tunneling through, also alternate between Wood/Metal and Cement, Cement needs a different item to that of the Wood/Metal, so unless they know the need for it they will not bring the right tools...

[MrWillsauce]

I'm quite proud of the set up I have at the moment, althought it is still relatively easy to rob the mechanism is pretty good.

Basically it's a cube in the middle of the grounds that you have to walk around in the right combination to unlock. On the inside is a chihuahua following you. So, its a bit like a safe combination lock, only, if you get it wrong the dog falls in a hole, and pit bulls are released.

I still need to beef up the gate. Some guy just crow barred his way through all three doors and took my five hundred bucks. He also shot all my dogs the bastard.

I like this kind of design because there is lots of wide open space around it with no dogs coming at you right away. It looks safe enough to try robbing, while also a little mysterious. How do I open this cube? So it lures people in rather than forcing them right away. It needs some more work, but I like offering people at least a possibility of getting inside. otherwise, whats the point?

I think I've found your house. If I'm correct, your name is Victor Dustin Johnson.