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[Zako]

((If I wanted a custom mech, I would just customize either a battlesuit or an Avatar to how I want it. Both are battle tested designs that work reliably, both can be customized extensively and both can utilize a massive amount of gear/weapons for whatever loadout you want, not to mention they aren't too ridiculously massive so they are easily shot down at long range by LESHO rifles/tubes.

...

How big are you making this thing anyway?))

Bishop looked over the ships with a small nod of approval. It was time to arm these things, and with a large amount of psychotic criminals around, who better to ask for ideas?

Everyone, I think it's time to have some fun with our new ships, namely coming up with suitable weapons to mount on them. Feel free to make suggestions!

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Unfortunately, Anton's almost entirely as in the dark about this as Simus - or was, till now. Even more unfortunately, he lacks the mobility and presence to really enforce his orders... and perhaps even more unfortunately, he would consider the idea as having merit in principle, though he would definitely have a few choice things to say about the execution.

Bipedal mechs really make more sense than you'd think, especially once you get past the clunky servomotors. With a proper powersource, a mech has as much agility and speed as a proportional human, and just like a human it can wield variable weaponry and adapt to circumstances better than a box on wheels can. It doesn't win over a tank in plowing forward and shooting everything in its path of course, but you can say the same of a human-sized drone, with the same difference in tactical flexibility.

I'll write up a decent post once I have the time.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((@Pyrodesu: i would appreciate you keeping your personal prejudices against giant robots out of this.
 Im not building this for me personally, im building it because its awesome, useful and piecewise is letting me.

@Zako: i have no idea, piecewise all but stated it would need the combined structural supports of 3 ships so im gonna say.. pretty god damn huge.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((@Pyrodesu: i would appreciate you keeping your personal prejudices against giant robots out of this.
 Im not building this for me personally, im building it because its awesome, useful and piecewise is letting me.

@Zako: i have no idea, piecewise all but stated it would need the combined structural supports of 3 ships so im gonna say.. pretty god damn huge.))

((The 3 ships in question are mostly intact, which is the entire reason we're repairing them in the first place. So all it really says is that your robot is large enough to draw away enough parts and manpower that we'd be unable to fully repair all six ships.))

[Kriellya]

Closer examination of #8 and #10!

For #8, does it seem like enough progress has been made on the engines to give it more orbital maneuverability, and does the plating look better, as compared to our shuttles or the standard hauler.

For #10, what are it's capabilities as compared to the blackship?

(( Oh, and on the giant robot debate... bi-pedal robots really are quite terrible. Or, indeed, a robot with legs of any kind. They have one advantage over a tread vehicle: better maneuverability over extreme terrain. To accomplish this (unless they're driven by magic, instead of normal physics) they are less armored, slower over any other terrain, and generally more awkward to use in every way. There's not much reason to build a mech instead of a tank, unless you have to go somewhere a treaded vehicle can't take you. ))

[Sean Mirrsen]

Anton's wristpad beeps.

To all technically minded personell,

I am currently building a "Giant Robot"^tm over by the ruined command centre and i would like to kindly ask for your assistance, any contributions to its construction would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Auron.

He stares at the message for a few seconds.

"...лядь. All I need right now."

Anton briefly considers leaving the man be and letting Simus take care of him. But, he reasons, since part of his task here was to keep these things in order... "...guess I'm going to have to rein that project in myself."

He turns on the radio on a standard public frequency, addressing Auron but letting anyone listen in.

"Let me put it on record, Auron, that the salvage team you have volunteered to be a part of was tasked with recovering salvageable material, not putting it to use in new and interesting ways, without coordination with the other groups or consulting our command. I don't know what the heck you're trying to build over there, but let me remind you that all salvaged material is to be brought to the salvage yard first. And until such a time that you've discussed the parameters of your construction project with the rest of us, not to mention that small thing called "asking permission", you are prohibited from taking any of the salvaged material for personal use.

When I said this stuff was ours, I meant it was ours, us being the ARM. Not any given one of us.

That being said, as long as you don't go off to build that "giant robot" of yours on your own, you can expect some help in its construction. From me, for instance. You're not the only one who likes large combat machines.

If you do go off, however, expect the estimated cost of the materials you used up to be docked from your pay. And the pay of anyone who helps you. And you really better hope XO Simus doesn't get wind of what you're doing."

Anton closes the channel.

"There. If that doesn't deter him, well, I did give him a warning...

Now, back to our sheep, so to speak."

Everyone, I think it's time to have some fun with our new ships, namely coming up with suitable weapons to mount on them. Feel free to make suggestions!

"We really have to actually decide on roles, and see what we really have to work with in regards to weapons. It's pretty obvious the Courier can't carry much besides its passengers, for instance. Maybe a large laser as a main weapon, some small turrets for clearing up a landing area, and a pair of sub-nuclear missiles to take out large groups of targets?

The Tug can carry a lot, so a cluster of four large assault cannons of some kind could work, mounted to fire forward. We should probably add extra armor to that forward plate, and perhaps some point defenses in the back - if it'll work as I think it will, we'll be literally ramming through opposition with it.

I don't think we should arm the two standard shuttles. Well, the one standard and one modified. They won't be actual dropships, like the Courier, they're way too slow. Maybe stick with the standard shuttle weaponry.

The freighter... you know, I had this neat idea of loading it full of cargo pods converted to carry guided missiles. Like some kind of multi-missile massacre. Screw point defense, we got eight thousand missiles heading your way! Heh. It'd really work best in space though. I'm not sure this thing can even maneuver in atmosphere.

And the dragster here, well... I think we need to find the biggest cannon its frame can support, then strip or manufacture some extra engines like the Couriers' there, and make it so it retains its mobility even with that cannon. Depending on how this invasion will go for us, we might see a need for a ship that can not only make it to the other side of the planet in an hour, but can also take out whatever required such rapid reaction in as few shots as possible. A true interceptor, if you will, kept way in reserve until we really, really need it."

Converse with various people. Idly wonder when the heck will VR be operational so that different weapons configurations for these ships can be tested.

((edit:

(( Oh, and on the giant robot debate... bi-pedal robots really are quite terrible. Or, indeed, a robot with legs of any kind. They have one advantage over a tread vehicle: better maneuverability over extreme terrain. To accomplish this (unless they're driven by magic, instead of normal physics) they are less armored, slower over any other terrain, and generally more awkward to use in every way. There's not much reason to build a mech instead of a tank, unless you have to go somewhere a treaded vehicle can't take you. ))

Or unless you have to fight in conditions that would make a treaded, or any other vehicle a sitting duck. The tank's response to incoming fire is binary - it'll take the shot, and either explode or not. Even if it moves it's always a good, easy to hit target. It can't take cover without preparation, it can't maneuver fast enough to evade fire, it can't quickly and dramatically change its profile. A mech, an actual infantry-like machine, can do all those things. Crouch or go prone, use scenery as cover or concealment, make scenery into cover or concealment, spot and evade incoming projectiles (a mile of distance gives you three seconds to spot and respond to a mach 1 projectile). This is on top of being able to use a variety of weapons and tools, and cross not only difficult but outright impossible terrain such as buildings.

I mean, really. Take a tank and scale it down so that it's the same in relative size as it would be to an infantry 'mech, and have it battle a regular infantryman. Just through being able to move and maneuver as a person, to say nothing of an increase in response time with the same person being the pilot and the gunner (with at most one other handling the radar and communications), an infantryman can outfight, even if not outgun, that little tank. Something as simple as a grenade can defeat a tank because it can't react. A 'mech's pilot will, ideally, have a much better awareness of his surroundings, if only because he would be fighting in an approximation (and extension) of his own body.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

-snip-

((We're trying to consider uses past just "Battle Time!"
As Sean noted, the couriers are probably going to be better for atmospheric works than the shuttles. Great for logistics, good as a Skyranger.))

((Because i wanted a jaegar ))

((Dot iz a gud goal, sveethot!))

To all technically minded personell,

I am currently building a "Giant Robot"^tm over by the ruined command centre and i would like to kindly ask for your assistance, any contributions to its construction would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Auron.

Grate looks at the message, then ignores it. It's stupid, but the people in charge can take care of it.

Bipedal mechs really make more sense than you'd think, especially once you get past the clunky servomotors. With a proper powersource, a mech has as much agility and speed as a proportional human, and just like a human it can wield variable weaponry and adapt to circumstances better than a box on wheels can. It doesn't win over a tank in plowing forward and shooting everything in its path of course, but you can say the same of a human-sized drone, with the same difference in tactical flexibility.

((The problem is, bipeds above a certain size are inherently unstable, because...damn it, I can't remember all the stuff, but it's basically torque making them fall over if they lean much off their center of balance. It isn't a huge issue for human-sized humanoids like humans, because "much" is plenty for their everyday activities, but for giant robots...giving them at least four legs would be better. Minimal, if any, loss of agility, but big gains in stability if you don't try to gallop.))

[Tavik Toth]

Help build Auron's mech as carefully as possible.

"How are a you going to arm this?"

[Unholy_Pariah]

"I dunno, well see whats left over after we retrofit those other ships."

[piecewise]

BUILD ROBUTT!

All dynamic bonuses granted by teammates will be greatly appreciated.

Spoiler: a few key details (click to show/hide)

Structural supports are gonna be used to make a nice strong sort of wireframe chassis so i can stick stuff inside the limbs such as rocket boosters and such.

Mechanical joints are to be welded directly onto the frame for best durability and have special armor guards to protect them, mostly. Largest most heavy duty joints go in the legs.

PD moint gets welded into the top of the torso and functions as a neck.

The head is (currently) nothing more than a few structural supports making a head shape with the sensor array inside and armored in such a way as to not obstruct the sensors field of vision.

Reactor gets repaired, then armored, then welded into the chest.

Computer core goes in behind the reactor in a similar armored enclosure.

Hands are to be either the two heaviest duty grasping claws i found or one grasping tool and the biggest rotary saw i found.

Feet will just be the big heavy duty landing feet i stole from a ships landing gear, possibly reshaped slightly.

Ideally this would be controlled from the VR machines via a quantum entanglement device tied into the control computer, if that isnt available construct a rudimentary cockpit in the stomach using a chair and some hand and foot controls, or the cocjpit of one of those loader robots if there was a broken one in ther command center.

Control interface projects telemetry onto the users suit faceplate to save space on a viewscreen, the robots head also mimicks the position of the pilots.

You're a little premature there, he says, waggling his cigar suggestively.

Lets start with the basics.

How big is this thing gonna be? Height wise, weight wise, etc.

How are the limbs moving? Servos? Hydraulics?

How many legs you want? How many joints on the legs, configurations.

Lets get the basic stuff going first. I gotta know how to break it.

Also, you're going in that robot. Consider it the tax for letting you have a giant robot which you control with Aux. It's more fun that way.

Help Auron with his kludgebot jaeger. Try to sneak some extra legs on there.

Probably a good idea. Non-organic robots are very hard to balance, among other things.

Closer examination of #8 and #10!

For #8, does it seem like enough progress has been made on the engines to give it more orbital maneuverability, and does the plating look better, as compared to our shuttles or the standard hauler.

For #10, what are it's capabilities as compared to the blackship?

(( Oh, and on the giant robot debate... bi-pedal robots really are quite terrible. Or, indeed, a robot with legs of any kind. They have one advantage over a tread vehicle: better maneuverability over extreme terrain. To accomplish this (unless they're driven by magic, instead of normal physics) they are less armored, slower over any other terrain, and generally more awkward to use in every way. There's not much reason to build a mech instead of a tank, unless you have to go somewhere a treaded vehicle can't take you. ))

Spoiler: Why not have both? (click to show/hide)

By the way, the series this comes from, despite far too much dicking around in "Cute girls doing cute things" territory has really great world building and a wonderful handling of a post apocalyptic world very different from how it's normally portrayed.

1. Plating looks about the same; it could reach orbit, it just doesn't have the engines to reach the minimal speed needed to jump.
2. Basically the same.

Anton's wristpad beeps.

To all technically minded personell,

I am currently building a "Giant Robot"^tm over by the ruined command centre and i would like to kindly ask for your assistance, any contributions to its construction would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Auron.

He stares at the message for a few seconds.

"...лядь. All I need right now."

Anton briefly considers leaving the man be and letting Simus take care of him. But, he reasons, since part of his task here was to keep these things in order... "...guess I'm going to have to rein that project in myself."

He turns on the radio on a standard public frequency, addressing Auron but letting anyone listen in.

"Let me put it on record, Auron, that the salvage team you have volunteered to be a part of was tasked with recovering salvageable material, not putting it to use in new and interesting ways, without coordination with the other groups or consulting our command. I don't know what the heck you're trying to build over there, but let me remind you that all salvaged material is to be brought to the salvage yard first. And until such a time that you've discussed the parameters of your construction project with the rest of us, not to mention that small thing called "asking permission", you are prohibited from taking any of the salvaged material for personal use.

When I said this stuff was ours, I meant it was ours, us being the ARM. Not any given one of us.

That being said, as long as you don't go off to build that "giant robot" of yours on your own, you can expect some help in its construction. From me, for instance. You're not the only one who likes large combat machines.

If you do go off, however, expect the estimated cost of the materials you used up to be docked from your pay. And the pay of anyone who helps you. And you really better hope XO Simus doesn't get wind of what you're doing."

Anton closes the channel.

"There. If that doesn't deter him, well, I did give him a warning...

Now, back to our sheep, so to speak."

Everyone, I think it's time to have some fun with our new ships, namely coming up with suitable weapons to mount on them. Feel free to make suggestions!

"We really have to actually decide on roles, and see what we really have to work with in regards to weapons. It's pretty obvious the Courier can't carry much besides its passengers, for instance. Maybe a large laser as a main weapon, some small turrets for clearing up a landing area, and a pair of sub-nuclear missiles to take out large groups of targets?

The Tug can carry a lot, so a cluster of four large assault cannons of some kind could work, mounted to fire forward. We should probably add extra armor to that forward plate, and perhaps some point defenses in the back - if it'll work as I think it will, we'll be literally ramming through opposition with it.

I don't think we should arm the two standard shuttles. Well, the one standard and one modified. They won't be actual dropships, like the Courier, they're way too slow. Maybe stick with the standard shuttle weaponry.

The freighter... you know, I had this neat idea of loading it full of cargo pods converted to carry guided missiles. Like some kind of multi-missile massacre. Screw point defense, we got eight thousand missiles heading your way! Heh. It'd really work best in space though. I'm not sure this thing can even maneuver in atmosphere.

And the dragster here, well... I think we need to find the biggest cannon its frame can support, then strip or manufacture some extra engines like the Couriers' there, and make it so it retains its mobility even with that cannon. Depending on how this invasion will go for us, we might see a need for a ship that can not only make it to the other side of the planet in an hour, but can also take out whatever required such rapid reaction in as few shots as possible. A true interceptor, if you will, kept way in reserve until we really, really need it."

Converse with various people. Idly wonder when the heck will VR be operational so that different weapons configurations for these ships can be tested.

((edit:

(( Oh, and on the giant robot debate... bi-pedal robots really are quite terrible. Or, indeed, a robot with legs of any kind. They have one advantage over a tread vehicle: better maneuverability over extreme terrain. To accomplish this (unless they're driven by magic, instead of normal physics) they are less armored, slower over any other terrain, and generally more awkward to use in every way. There's not much reason to build a mech instead of a tank, unless you have to go somewhere a treaded vehicle can't take you. ))

Or unless you have to fight in conditions that would make a treaded, or any other vehicle a sitting duck. The tank's response to incoming fire is binary - it'll take the shot, and either explode or not. Even if it moves it's always a good, easy to hit target. It can't take cover without preparation, it can't maneuver fast enough to evade fire, it can't quickly and dramatically change its profile. A mech, an actual infantry-like machine, can do all those things. Crouch or go prone, use scenery as cover or concealment, make scenery into cover or concealment, spot and evade incoming projectiles (a mile of distance gives you three seconds to spot and respond to a mach 1 projectile). This is on top of being able to use a variety of weapons and tools, and cross not only difficult but outright impossible terrain such as buildings.

I mean, really. Take a tank and scale it down so that it's the same in relative size as it would be to an infantry 'mech, and have it battle a regular infantryman. Just through being able to move and maneuver as a person, to say nothing of an increase in response time with the same person being the pilot and the gunner (with at most one other handling the radar and communications), an infantryman can outfight, even if not outgun, that little tank. Something as simple as a grenade can defeat a tank because it can't react. A 'mech's pilot will, ideally, have a much better awareness of his surroundings, if only because he would be fighting in an approximation (and extension) of his own body.))

Well...power should be restored...Lets say by next turn. So then.

Help build Auron's mech as carefully as possible.

"How are a you going to arm this?"

Sure, soon as we can










By the way, the parts Auron is using now come from a different place so it doesn't effect your 6 ship limit.  Though it might effect your "Where the fuck are all our workers? Oh, they're helping build a walking tank. Cool." limit.

[Tavik Toth]

((That walking tank design seems good.))

[NAV]

((I agree with Tavik. It could use some arms though. For close range combat, environment manipulation, carrying heavy objects.
Ideally, we should have a 6 legged vehicle that is capable of locomoting on 3 or 4 legs. Somewhat humanoid torso and arms, massive gun turret where the head would be.))

[Tavik Toth]

((I agree with Tavik. It could use some arms though. For close range combat, environment manipulation, carrying heavy objects.
Ideally, we should have a 6 legged vehicle that is capable of locomoting on 3 or 4 legs. Somewhat humanoid torso and arms, massive gun turret where the head would be.))

((Like a Chromehound and/or a tank/walker type Armoured Core?

Found a good design:

Spoiler: XBOX HUEG picture (click to show/hide)

))

[PyroDesu]

By the way, the parts Auron is using now come from a different place so it doesn't effect your 6 ship limit.  Though it might effect your "Where the fuck are all our workers? Oh, they're helping build a walking tank. Cool." limit.

((I'm going to note here, Unholy, that despite PW saying that you're still taking salvage in violation of orders. That was PW talking out of character, not giving you either explicit or implicit permission in character.

Also, limbs don't scale up as well as you people seem to think they do (square/cube law, if you double a critter's height while keeping it the same shape, you end up with four times the muscle power moving eight times the mass, so instead of having the same relative agility as the original, the double-sized creature actually has only half. The same goes for most machinery, except worse since mechanical 'muscle' is terribly inefficient). Mechs actually have inferior ability to traverse unstable or uneven terrain, due to the massively increased ground pressure and a terrible balance due to the increased height of the center of mass (the latter affecting bipedal mechs more, but the former still applying to anything with legs (tanks can cross ground a human (or any quadruped) alone would sink into), especially at that size). They're slow, and mostly regulated to hard, somewhat regular ground for mobility, lest they either get stuck or fall over. They're also much bigger targets, and insanely difficult to armor not only due to the peculiar geometry having a higher surface area to volume ratio. The increased height also makes them even easier prey for gunships and CAS. Also, legs are a much more unstable firing platform (though once again, the major impact of that is to bipedal, but you're still not getting the stability of treads with any amount of legs), meaning they cannot carry even tank-sized weapons. As well, you guys are undervaluing tanks - especially you, Sean. Tank armor is a hell of a lot stronger than you think - a modern tank, today, can shrug off impact from most anything smaller than tank cannons (that includes explosives - infantry grenades are useless against tank armor, even RPGs are completely unable to penetrate the armor in several examples. You need quite large and expensive systems to have an infantry (team)-portable weapon that can disable a tank, and even those aren't guaranteed). And having multiple people doing different jobs in a vehicle actually increases responsiveness, since one person doesn't have to try to keep tabs on everything - it's rather difficult to aim and fire a weapon while moving (which tanks can do with some accuracy - still better to fire from rest, but they can fire on the move and still hit) while reading a map while participating in radio contact with the rest of your squad.))

((Now I'm done with the massive wall of text, PW, is there anything you need from me before we can say, okay, spot's chosen, let's wrap this up, have a HQ built, and get to the good stuff?))

[Radio Controlled]

((@ Robot building: At first I was against it, since we need those shuttles and all, but now that he'll be using scrap anyways, eh, let them be. Part of the appeal of this game is that different people get different things out of it: I get to play a unique strategy game, others roleplay, he enjoys gathering junk and building dirtbots (he reminds me of that alien from Megas XLR with the robot zombies). Besides, ER physics are hard enough to give him some trouble actually getting that thing to be useful. And he'll probably ignore ya'll anyway until you physically try to stop him anyway 

That said, I do have some 'problems' with it, both technical and mission-wise:

Spoiler: technical (click to show/hide)

I agree that making a biped mech out of anything but high-grade materials is a bad idea, for several reasons mentioned. That said, the multiple legs approach could work, but you'll have to decide if you want the frame to be horizontally or vertically framed. Also, have you considered making it a mechatank?
All the stability and carrying capacity of a threaded vehicle, but with arms to break stuff. And you can add deployable legs and make the threads retractable, for double the fun (and engineering problems).

But even with all that, it still won't be anything near mobile. For that you'd need high-grade armor, like battlesuit plate, since the same protection with metal will be much thicker and heavier. And without mobility you'll be a sitting duck if they have heavy weapons. Unless you go for artillery platform, in which case hands are useless.

Spoiler: mission-wise (click to show/hide)

Now, suppose you pull through with this, your only option will be Assault team, and a very frontline role at that. You can't hide (so no ambush) nor have the mobility to run around very much (so no melee possibility, nor hiding and closing the distance quickly unless they are very close already), and shuttle transport might not be possible either. And if they have decent weapons they can probably take you down fairly quick, or at the least cripple you so you aren't useful anymore. Just some things to keep in mind.

That said, if you need certain things, I'm sure Miyamoto would be willing to help by constructing some things. Nothing all to complicated, but maybe a plate of better frontal armor or a melee weapon or whatever. Just ask him when he has the time.

((I think that mechs do fill a unique niche on a modern (ER-verse) battlefield, but it's true they'll never really take the role of main combat unit from threaded/wheeled vehicles, those are just to cost efficient for that. That said, I do think they have great flexibility and possibility, but more as an infantry support weapon than a real walking tank. So they both have their drawbacks and strengths, and the trick is covering the former while optimally stressing the latter.

Food for though: a big reason why battlesuits can work they way they do is because, in this universe, the race between armor and weapons seems to be going very much in favor of armor, seeing as how they can shrug of all but the most heavy weapons in our arsenal, while still having decent mobility. Modern vehicles, aside the real heavy main battle tanks (M1A1 Abrahams and cousins) are still vulnerable to infantry mounted weapons.))