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[smjjames]

Well, sure, chemical weapons in general. But the deadliest nerve agent ever synthesized? This stuff isn't trivial.

We don't yet know whether they made it themselves, but if they didn't, they had to get it from somewhere.

And if NK really did make it, that's going to up the ante. Actually, the ante will be upped anyway just because the nerve agent was involved.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, sure, chemical weapons in general. But the deadliest nerve agent ever synthesized? This stuff isn't trivial.

We don't yet know whether they made it themselves, but if they didn't, they had to get it from somewhere.

There's no reason they wouldn't, really. The synthesis process of VX is on wikipedia, there's no secret. With state backing it's trivial.

The governments and people of the world are probably fortunate that advanced chemistry isn't commonly taught, you can make all sorts of impossibly deadly shit from unrestricted substances. I'm sure you're familiar with the ability to make mustard gas from cleaning supplies, since that one happens to people accidentally on occasion. Fortunately, the direction of our society is such that the people who can do these things typically make illegal drugs instead of illegal chemical warfare agents.

[Egan_BW]

I'm not sure I like where this is going.

[smjjames]

Considering that it is, in fact, classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the UN...

.... whoever DID make it, is going to be in big trouble. If NK made it, it's hard to imagine NK sanctions getting much harsher without running into straight up ethical things like aid shipments. AFAIK, almost every sanction that is lawful has been applied to NK.

[Baffler]

Wikipedia claims that Kim-Jong Nam is the only person in history known to have been killed by VX. A dubious honor if ever there was one.

[Helgoland]

Well, sure, chemical weapons in general. But the deadliest nerve agent ever synthesized? This stuff isn't trivial.

Not as trivial as making, say, phosgene, but still fairly easy. Just a couple steps, and the next-to-final compound isn't even all that deadly - look up 'binary chemical weapon'. And hell, the final product is surprisingly non-volatile. I think I read somewhere about people working with this stuff on the benchtop, without heavy protection, before it was known how deadly this sort of chemical could be.

The accidental mustard gas mentioned above is chlorine, by the way, not actual mustard gas.

[misko27]

Wikipedia claims that Kim-Jong Nam is the only person in history known to have been killed by VX. A dubious honor if ever there was one.

A salute to NKorea's dedication to the cutting edge of science, I suppose.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

People forget, but there's a reason NBC weapons are put in that category together. They're all indiscriminate, and they all have MAD potential when used. VX is not as scary as nukes, but if governments used it regularly other governments would start using the same. If you dropped tons of aerosolized VX over a city you might not kill everyone, but you'd kill a hell of a lot of them.

Hence the extensive disarmament campaign for chemical weapons alongside nuclear ones. America and Russia still have VX abound, and disarmament for it alone began before nukes, not even considering other chemical weapons.

So it's not that unusual to suggest Nam was the first person to have been killed by VX. It's probably not absolutely true, but it is almost certainly the first recorded.

[smjjames]

Either way, the fact that it got used as an assassination tool is still pretty serious, and if it somehow got burglarized from someones stash, that's still serious, though for different reasons.

[Baffler]

What's more interesting is that North Korean agents have used a banned WMD on Indonesian soil. The repercussions for NK could go much farther than Chyna no longer buying their coal, since I'm guessing nobody just gave the stuff to them.

[smjjames]

What's more interesting is that North Korean agents have used a banned WMD on Indonesian soil. The repercussions for NK could go much farther than Chyna no longer buying their coal, since I'm guessing nobody just gave the stuff to them.

Malaysian, not Indonesian. I could imagine Iran giving them the stuff, but given that they are able to make nukes and rocket fuel and rocket stuff while under the sanctions, making a batch of the nerve gas would be comparatively easy for NK.

And yeah, the reprecussions could very well go further. Which actually, could make NK even more dangerous as they'd have even less to lose.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Iran under Mahmoud "Zero Gay People" Ahmadinejad might have started selling VX on the black market, but not now. More to the point, there is no reason to postulate that anybody else would have sold it to NK. State actors can easily make VX, even well supplied non-state actors could. It's the simplest explanation.

[smjjames]

Anyways, anybody else think using such a potent nerve gas for assassination would be overkill? There's certainly other methods that don't involve banned substances, and heck of a lot subtler methods. I suppose that it also speaks to how Kim Jong doesn't care for the reprucussions, or maybe they counted on being able to get the body back before the method was discovered.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It was a good choice for certainty, and in truth NK's pariah state status is such that they don't have a lot to lose diplomatically.

Humans are pretty hard to poison consistently, and quickly, and with a low dosage, and lethally. The bracket for all of them together doesn't contain a lot of entries. They could have poisoned him with methalmercury and been certain he would die, for instance, but he would have lingered weeks to months before expiring.

[Descan]

Wikipedia claims that Kim-Jong Nam is the only person in history known to have been killed by VX. A dubious honor if ever there was one.

"In December 1994 and January 1995, Masami Tsuchiya of Aum Shinrikyo synthesized 100 to 200 grams of VX which was used to attack three persons. Two persons were injured and one 28-year-old man died, who was the first victim of VX ever documented in the world at that time." From Wikipedia. o-o???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)#History