Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Loud Whispers]

Are you sure you're not mixing me up with someone else? We really don't have any prominent "preachers" here to my knowledge. I assume they exist, but I have no idea who they are, so I couldn't compare you to them. And I don't recall you talking about suicide even once so I'm not sure what thread that would even be in.

You know on second thought, I may have mixed you up with someone with your views and a similar name lol
I doubt this'll be the last time, so apologies

As condolences have some info for your mind

President Park Geun Hye's brief apology Tuesday afternoon that lasted all of 1 1/2 minutes was the final blow for those who had been holding out hope that what they had seen in the news was not true.

Ayyyyyyyyyyy lmao

‘It’s actually a system where Choi Sun-sil tells the President what to do

Is this real life
I answer yes

[Reelya]

I think there's evidence that this choi person was one of her advisors, but where I'd say the comparisons to "Scientology" end is that there's really no "organization" as such, from everything I'm reading. Also there's a complete lack of any religious elements to any of the accusations. There's a big difference between a single person with some kooky family history and an entire organization like Scientology, which basically has it's own mind-control cult and indoctrination system that works by filtering what members see and hear.

Sure, she sent Choi drafts of her speeches to edit. But there's nothing particularly weird about using a close person to edit political speeches. And nobody is saying there's anything weird in the speeches themselves.

Also, we do have to remember most of the claims are being pushed by the opposition parties, and there's an election coming up for the next president in just over one year. The people involved in pushing this story have a lot to gain by blowing it up.

[Loud Whispers]

I think there's evidence that this choi person was one of her advisors, but where I'd say the comparisons to "Scientology" end is that there's really no "organization" as such, from everything I'm reading. Also there's a complete lack of any religious elements to any of the accusations.
Sure, she sent Choi drafts of her speeches to edit. But there's nothing particularly weird about using a close person to edit political speeches. And nobody is saying there's anything weird in the speeches themselves.
There's a big difference between a single person with some kooky family history and an entire organization like Scientology, which basically has it's own mind-control cult and indoctrination system that works by filtering what members see and hear.

Reelya what is your motive here, because trying to pass off a secret society of billionaire shamans controlling democratic leaders from behind the scenes as something normal is very suspicious

I can only assume that your focus on identity politics to the exclusion of the fetid corruption being uncovered is a western thing, and not some ulterior shitposting

[Reelya]

My objective here is to get with reality.

BTW what exactly do you mean "identity politics". That seems like it's completely tangential here.

All I said is that there's literally zero evidence of a huge religious influence going on here. There's evidence of a single person who is close to the president having influence, yes. But that's just average and not particularly noteworthy in the big scale of things. My point was that comparisons to "Scientology" are completely overblown here, as there's basically no organization.

[TheBiggerFish]

Um.  They were literally writing the laws.

[Reelya]

Um.  They were literally writing the laws.

This is where you need a reality check. The South Korean president doesn't rule by decree. All legislation must be presented to Speaker of the National Assembly by a member of the assembly, and co-signed by 10 other Assemblymen. In other words, the wording in all prospective bills need to be approved of by 11 people, none of whom are the President. The Assembly then debates and either passes or rejects the bill.

This is what I'm talking about with people getting irrational about this story. "Literally wrote the laws" is provably false, and it's definitely in zone for irrational panic.

[Reelya]

Because people are saying provably false statements about it, such as that choi "literally wrote the laws". Maybe there was some wording in there, but it still had to pass the entire national assembly legislative process. There's a grain of truth in there but the conspiracy-level BS is through the roof. I would say this is at 9/11 truther levels of accuracy about now, which is why I'm taking some of the more extreme claims with a grain of salt.

EDIT: I had to google Megalia. That's some sort of SK feminist thing? I'm not sure exactly which parts of what I wrote have any specific connection to that. I'd call out dumb irrational hype about leaders of either gender. e.g. I've called out dumb Trump claims before, when they weren't accurate. Honestly it didn't occur to me that gender was even relevant in this story. I don't normally think of politician's gender as having much relevance to feminism. Look at Thatcher. Sarah Palin. Michelle Bachman. ETC ETC.

Also, Korea is known as an extremely partiarchal society. So there are some rumors flying around that seek to discredit and crush female politicians, about how they're all evil witches who are plotting in cahoots to destroy society? Yeah right, I'm not going to automatically assume those rumors reflect reality in the slightest. Googling "Megalia" that's some sort of grass roots radfem thing in SK. Just because Park is a woman, it seems kind weird to try and link her to some recent radfem movement, purely on the basis of her gender. That's like saying Obama must be an MRA. After all, he's a dude, right?

[Flying Dice]

Literally wrote policy.

Unless you're suggesting that the chief executive in a presidential system doesn't have power to set policy, in which case pass whatever you're smoking along, we need all we can get this November.

This is seriously not the hill to die on.

And hey, when someone says "secretive mystic cabal of ultra-rich seeking to brainwash and control powerful individuals", I think Scientology.

[Max™]

Yeah but again, imagine having all these whackjobs over here in the US talking about the Freemasons or Illuminati or Reptile People controlling the country, like we actually have, I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg of stupid conspiracy theories over here, and then the president comes out and says "ok, yeah, the Illuminati are true bros, and I'm sorry about hiding them from you, my bad" and you're acting like this is just ordinary stuff?

[Reelya]

Literally wrote policy.

But that's still backtracking on "literally wrote the laws". And if people were being accurate and level headed, there would be no backtracking.

Also, can you point me to the citation for that. I can find that she "received policy briefings", and the evidence that she proofed and edited speeches. But that's a step away from saying she "literally wrote" government policy, and well away from "literally wrote the laws".

[Flying Dice]

I never said that. Whoever did was either speaking off the cuff or doesn't understand how division of powers works. Or assumes that SK is a democracy-in-name-only like so many presidential systems are.

[Reelya]

I  was saying linking Megalia into this story at all seems idiotic. It's a grass-roots movement that's fairly recent, Park is a career politician from a family of establishment politicians. Her gender is the only connection.

http://www.koreabang.com/2016/features/the-rise-of-radical-korean-feminist-community-megalia.html

Recently, a radical feminist online community ‘Megalia’ that exhibits extreme misandry has emerged as a prominent party in Korea’s cyber gender discourse war front. They have been trying to expand their influence through organized efforts online and also present themselves as a legitimate feminist group in real life, suppressing their online extremes. The following is an example of one of the most highly up-voted posts in Megalia. This post received 891 up votes and 5 down votes.

WTF connection does a recent online radfem website have to Ms Park, president of South Korea? It's about as plausible a link as saying Hillary Clinton is an agent of jezebel.com

[Reelya]

Because she's been in politics for decades, and this is a single website that popped up very recently.

Also, they are radfems, she's not a radfem.

[Max™]

Well, I'd say it's about as plausible as the president of SK being linked to a crazy cultish conspiracy theory, these are weird times after all.

[Reelya]

My main problem with that is that none of the articles are claiming that any sort of existent cult is in operation. There's one ex-employee of Choi saying she had political influence, but that insider isn't bringing any religious aspect up.

Basically I think the real story here is pure power, money and personal influence. The religion connection is the side story. Choi is just exploiting the fact that her dad happened to have connections to the previous administration, and most likely doesn't have a lick of religious belief herself. That's notable, because she's 60 years old and nobody is highlighting any especially "religious" things Ms Choi has ever done or said.

And if you take the salacious "religious cult" aspect out of this, the story is basically a non-starter. Some confidant of the president had influence on written policy. Big fucking whoop. Someone obviously writes policy, and presidents have speechwriters, why are we supposed to care so much that it was her, exactly?