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[Owlbread]

I think it's more the fact that Srebrenica and the deaths of all those prisoners are both examples of mass systematic slaughter on very similar scales.

[Sheb]

When did we discussed that massacre? Does anyone have mor einfo about it?

[Owlbread]

When did we discussed that massacre? Does anyone have mor einfo about it?

We talked about it when someone brought up the huge, mysterious drop in the prison camp's population a few pages ago.

[Owlbread]

This documentary by Channel 4 may be superficial in places but it is interesting in that it shows just how widespread the resistance is in North Korea against the state. I was particularly impressed by one woman literally shoving an Army Officer in the chest, calling him a "bastard" and asking him where his stars were because he was trying to stop her illegal bus service. The "bus" was little more than a pickup truck that people were climbing into but the state wasn't happy about it.

The way things seem to work is that North Koreans will usually get very angry at cadres or soldiers trying to enforce laws they consider silly, like women not being allowed to wear trousers or being able to ride bicycles and so on. They will shut up however when things get political. They are getting much, much bolder, especially when you consider how things were 20 years ago. The most encouraging thing is that, because of the resistance people showed over women being able to wear trousers, Kim jong-un legalised women wearing trousers shortly after coming into office.

The documentary also shows a well-to-do family in Pyongyang discussing their desire for "basic rights" (they even say "look at how people in China have freedom of speech") and refer to the possibility of armed rebellion, though they say it would only lead to military crackdown and everyone being killed.

[Vattic]

Watched that documentary last night. It was interesting to see footage off the official tour routes. I too was impressed by the arguing back against the police/military.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What I'm interested in is what those two girls watching the smuggled film said: "They look like they took a vacation to the Soviet Union or Europe."

So, the Norks are maintaining the continued existence of the Eastern Bloc, or at least the USSR. I guess the people have no way of knowing otherwise, and with China's rhetoric the continued existence of communism as a powerful ideology would be a lot easier to lie about.

I'm very glad to see that there is an informal internet being created in North Korea. It really goes to show how powerful the internet really is, that it can proliferate even in a totalitarian state that only has a state-run intranet. I wasn't convinced before, but after watching this I am: these are the final years of North Korea. You can't make people unlearn what they have come to know, and the North Koreans are starting to know despite the government's best efforts. Pretty soon, all it will take is a spark.

I also noticed something else: Neither the footmen nor the officers of the NK police seem to carry guns or tazers. There's an interesting and dangerous detail for anybody fed up with the regime.

[Xantalos]

Well, seeing that I'm putting a max of 30 years on the place. Likely 15-20 before it sinks.

[Owlbread]

I'll have to agree with MSH here. Things are speeding up so much now in the DPRK that it is becoming clear that these are the final years. The speed of change is what is key here. If we compare the life people had in 2004 with what they have now in 2014 with mobile phones, smuggled movies and resistance to authority being so widespread, it really could be a matter of 5-10 years. Though those things have existed in the DPRK for years it was never on this scale.

[LordSlowpoke]

I, for one, hate to say that Mr. Kim's Wild Ride will never end.

The first rule of happening is that it's never happening, after all.

[Xantalos]

I'll have to agree with MSH here. Things are speeding up so much now in the DPRK that it is becoming clear that these are the final years. The speed of change is what is key here. If we compare the life people had in 2004 with what they have now in 2014 with mobile phones, smuggled movies and resistance to authority being so widespread, it really could be a matter of 5-10 years. Though those things have existed in the DPRK for years it was never on this scale.

Wait wait they have smuggled phones and movies?
Yeah, 10-15 years until collapse.

[Owlbread]

Roughly half the North Korean population has seen a smuggled movie at some point. A million of them regularly listen to a particular Southern radio station for defectors.

[Dutchling]

I'll have to agree with MSH here. Things are speeding up so much now in the DPRK that it is becoming clear that these are the final years. The speed of change is what is key here. If we compare the life people had in 2004 with what they have now in 2014 with mobile phones, smuggled movies and resistance to authority being so widespread, it really could be a matter of 5-10 years. Though those things have existed in the DPRK for years it was never on this scale.

I hope someone manages to capture the Kim family and set up a Kim/Dictatorship Zoo, with some Korean actors to make it look real to the Kim family.

[MonkeyHead]

Unfortunatley, unless someone intervenes when shit starts to fly out there, its gonna be a bloody mess with millions dead. Hell, even if China or US/UN/NATO flexes muscles, its a likley clusterfuck. My money is on it ending up some kind of military dictatorship, with a China approved puppet warlord at the helm.

[Lagslayer]

Unfortunatley, unless someone intervenes when shit starts to fly out there, its gonna be a bloody mess with millions dead. Hell, even if China or US/UN/NATO flexes muscles, its a likley clusterfuck. My money is on it ending up some kind of military dictatorship, with a China approved puppet warlord at the helm.

So, basically just the same old thing?

[Owlbread]

Unfortunatley, unless someone intervenes when shit starts to fly out there, its gonna be a bloody mess with millions dead. Hell, even if China or US/UN/NATO flexes muscles, its a likley clusterfuck. My money is on it ending up some kind of military dictatorship, with a China approved puppet warlord at the helm.

I agree with you that this will end in terrible bloodshed no matter what happens. However I think the pressure from the South would be too great to have the Northern people come under Chinese/Communist/Juche control again. Though the Southerners are usually quite clear that they don't want these Northerners wrecking their beautiful economy with their mind numbing poverty, I think that will change when people see the truth.

Don't underestimate how bad this could be. When people start seeing what went on (and is going on now) in those camps it'll be like another Holocaust or the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge. Everyone all over the world will be saying "We didn't know it was this bad! How could this happen?" but the truth will be that we did know, we just didn't bother to do anything about it. It's not like the Kims had oil.