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Author Topic: Additional CIA japes [DPRK Thread]  (Read 549710 times)

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2280 on: September 19, 2013, 03:28:14 pm »

The Berlin Wall was just that. I don't know about you, but I spoke with someone who crossed it personally, and can say it had a pretty good track record. Not a 100% one, though. 70-90% tops.
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Darvi

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2281 on: September 19, 2013, 03:41:30 pm »

If it worked, it's not silly.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2282 on: September 19, 2013, 03:45:39 pm »

You kidding? The best working things are silly.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2283 on: September 19, 2013, 03:48:30 pm »

The Berlin Wall was just that. I don't know about you, but I spoke with someone who crossed it personally, and can say it had a pretty good track record. Not a 100% one, though. 70-90% tops.
Difference being that the Berlin wall/ Iron Curtain was regularly (almost constantly) traversed by significant amount of people from both sides. Makes smuggling a bit easier.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2284 on: September 19, 2013, 03:52:39 pm »

one does not simply call running across the border at 2 am while being shot at easy, smugglers or not
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Darvi

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2285 on: September 19, 2013, 03:55:58 pm »

One does not simply... walk into North Korea?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2286 on: September 19, 2013, 03:56:36 pm »

Unless it is from china.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2287 on: September 19, 2013, 04:03:06 pm »

If it worked, it's not silly.
No, that's stupid

If it looks silly, but works, it's silly. If it looks stupid, but works, it's still stupid.
FTFY

There might be a slight difference between silly and creative though.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2288 on: September 19, 2013, 04:07:02 pm »

Nope, can't do that either. It's not as bad as the DMZ, but China's border with North Korea is heavily enforced, mostly to keep North Koreans out. According to most of the documentaries on the subject, the usual way into North Korea is by train.
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Owlbread

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2289 on: September 19, 2013, 04:58:30 pm »

Heavily enforced yet extremely porous at the same time, due to the rampant corruption among the border guards. There are people (North Koreans and possibly Chinese Koreans, I am not sure) who make livings smuggling drugs and contraband across the border. The biggest problem is the river that kills a lot of escapees, but when it's frozen in winter you can sometimes walk across it.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 05:00:27 pm by Owlbread »
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tahujdt

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2290 on: September 22, 2013, 04:50:29 am »

Looking at the title, I read Oh Look. Defecations.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2291 on: September 22, 2013, 05:20:56 am »

According to Andrei Lankov, North Korean defectors returning back to North Korea (which are usually people who couldn't fit in the South Korean society) simply go to Beijing, show up at the North Korean embassy and state that they want to go back.
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Owlbread

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2292 on: September 22, 2013, 07:30:04 am »

How many people does Andrei Lankov say are going back to North Korea? My understanding was that if you were caught having escaped you would be brought home, interrogated/tortured and executed.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2293 on: September 22, 2013, 08:13:31 am »

I'm sure lots of them are, but that's the power of brainwashing. I have yet to read it myself, but I know that the author of Escape From Camp 14 talks about how even most of the people in North Korea's death camps believe the state rhetoric and will report dissenters to guards.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Oh Look. Defections. What A Surprise. [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #2294 on: September 22, 2013, 03:30:21 pm »

How many people does Andrei Lankov say are going back to North Korea? My understanding was that if you were caught having escaped you would be brought home, interrogated/tortured and executed.

Quote from: Extract from Lankov's article, translated by me
...After arriving in South Korea, North Koreans attend a special 2 month course teaching the basics of South Korean life: how to buy Metro tickets and what goods are sold in South Korean shops. After finishing the course, they get a one-time benefit (the amount of money depends on various factors, but it's usually around 15 thousands dollars - 5 or 6 average monthly salaries in Seoul), an apartment and afterwards are left to fend for themselves.

Then, people get disappointed. Refugees find out that the beautiful life depicted in South Korean soap operas exists, however, it's unaffordable for them. Only the lowest paying jobs are available for refugees in the South Korean society. In January of 2010, the average wage of an refugee who is employed was around 1200 dollars, which is two times less than the average wage of a person born in South Korea. However, the statistics only count employed refugees. The average unemployment rate among the refugees are 16%, which is six times higher than the national level.

It is caused by objective reasons. The majority of refugees are unskilled workers - peasants from the poorest regions of the DPRK. It's clear that they don't have the skills needed to perform a high-paying work in the modern society. Even those refugees who have an education immediately find out that they need to get a South Korean education in order to get employed. Not everyone can do it. For example, I know a North Korean engineer who has to work as a doorman and a security guard. Theoretically, he can get an education, however, he has to collect money in order to pay for smuggling his wife and two kids out of North Korea.

Discrimination also exists. Despite all official (and rather insincere) statements about striving towards reunification, South Koreans view the refugees as foreigners, and foreigners are usually treated with suspicion and are generally avoided in the South Korean society.

However, the main problems of refugees are not caused by their modest standards of living - even when taking South Korean prices into account, living in Seoul on 1200 dollars a month is better than living somewhere in Manchuria on 80 dollars a month (not to mention North Korea). The main problems of refugees are loneliness and the feeling of total isolation, and also ruined high expectations. Locals avoid weird and suspicious strangers. Actually, they don't have much to talk about - their life experiences are way too different. The only exceptions are Christian churches, which are abundant in staunchly Protestant South Korea. Some of them provide care for newly-arrived compatriots. It's no wonder that many refugees become Christians during the first months after arriving in the country.

Life is especially hard for those people who arrive in South Korea alone. A few months ago, one of my acquaintances, who has a very good job by North Korean refugee standards, told me: "During the first months of living in Seoul, there wasn't a single week when I didn't seriously consider going back to the North"

It should be noted that it's relatively easy to return. All North Korean refugees can get a South Korean passport like everybody else. Disillusioned refugees use it to go to Beijing and afterwards show up in the North Korean embassy expressing their remorse.

Contrary to a popular belief, the people currently running the North Korean propaganda department are pretty smart. In the recent years, repentant refugees have been extensively used for propaganda purposes. One may assume that some of them get repressed, however most of them are granted amnesty and return home. The most clever ones are used as lecturers - they go around the country and tell about the horrors of living in the capitalist South. The text is written by the Party's Central Committee and is learned by heart. Deviating from it is strictly forbidden, however most of it is actually true and is based on personal experiences of refugees.

Sometimes the travels of refugees can get pretty tragicomic. Kim Nam-su, who used to be a director of a small North Korean factory, defected to the South in 1993. In 2000, he returned back to DPRK, becoming one of the first people to do so. In 2003, he defected to the South again, and soon after that organised the trip to South Korea for his family. Now, he quietly lives in the countryside with his family, growing vegetables on his farm.

Of course, dozens of people who return back is only a fraction of a percent of the total amount of refugees. Of course, there are one hundred refugees who take the most dirty and difficult work to collect money for moving their family to the South from DPRK or out of hiding in China per one person who goes back. However, the difficult situation of refugees and the existence of returnees is a bad foreshadowing for the reunified Korea.

In case of a sudden German-style reunification, the absolute majority of former North Koreans will turn into unskilled cheap workers, and it's not likely that they will approve it. However, the most realistic alternative is the continuation of the existence of the current regime, which is not a more appealing solution for its subjects. Unfortunately, the inhabitants of the northern half of the Korean peninsula got extremely unlucky, and their problems have no easy and painless solution.

Original article can be found here.
It should be noted that it was written in 2010. North Korean policies might (or might not) have changed after Kim Jong-un became the Supreme Leader.

Edit: numerous grammar fixes. Plus, I've fixed the broken link.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 03:44:39 pm by Guardian G.I. »
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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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