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[Nilik]

you know what dprk stands for right?
juche is all about hereditarity, people get sent to concentration camps for being closely related to people who committed political crimes, the country is divided into hereditary castes based on their ancestors' condition in the beginning of the revolution. anyone who is loyal to the regime accepts as a dogma that the supreme leader of the country must be a descendant of the great leader, the eternal president. a system where they get to choose their leaders is out of the question, besides, democracy is what they already have right now...

Exactly, everybody can vote, but obviously everyone would vote for Dear Leader, so they don't even have to bother with elections. As democracies go, its remarkably efficient.

[Strife26]

Okay Owl, we get it, victims of a dictator are there on their own will. Noone who wants to leave could possibly still be there. Settled that, you expert, you.

Anyways. NK 'artillery' [the ones that aren't self propelled since they can't afford to fuel self-propelled artillery] is a joke and even if their cute Howitzers work, their positions are all known, thoroughly mapped out [Yes, the military know how maps work too!], recognized. The US military doesn't happen to be the most powerful just in title, they know how to plan a war that's been asking to happen for 50 years. NK is not the underdog people think it is.

It's a desperate, poor, starving country with a dictator who uses death camps to keep people from openly killing his pathetic soldiers. A real engagement with NK would end in a matter of days with Jung-Un being hung by his own people as soon as we shell the shit out of every piece of military equipment they've desperately clinged onto since the Cold War. Sorry. The people there are trapped and languish in desire for a real Korea. Don't doubt that.

Yep. Dictatorships will fall apart at the first tiniest poke by a western country, nation building is easy, and all the artillery is mapped out and ready to be destroyed at the snap of General MacArthur's fingers. Got that settled, you expert, you.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Quite a bit of ill-advised handwaving at your own force's capabilities there, Strife. Especially since anyone with an ounce of geopolitical knowledge knows there's a vast difference in a dictatorship in NK and Iraq but, hey, let's create a fake precedent since we've botched three winnable situations thanks to pathetically dense Republican management. Korea has been accounted and prepared for since the 60's. Can't throw that away, even with Iraq-like mismanagement.

[Strife26]

And it's no less a hand-wave to claim that the most politically indoctrinated country in the world is ripe for revolution, or that we can kill the heaviest artillery belt in the world in a politically acceptable time. Especially considering that politically acceptable is in the neighborhood of nothing, considering the amount of damage a bunch of old artillery firing all their ready ammo as quick as possible would do, even if they were doing their best just to hit military targets. We were probably prepared for nuclear war at some point in the sixties too, doesn't mean that we wouldn't have gotten our hair mussed in the process.

[alexandertnt]

Do not underestimate or trivialise the ammount of damage NK could do. War is much more complicated then who has the most soldiers/best technology.

Especially considering NK have nukes. It means attacking them could cause quite alot of grief.

[Max White]

Does nuclear technology = nuclear armament?
Last I heard weight is a factor in missile design.

[DJ]

You don't have to launch nukes, you can also have infiltrators deploy them. Best Korea has an extensive spy network in Inferior Korea, right?

[Strife26]

You don't have to launch nukes, you can also have infiltrators deploy them. Best Korea has an extensive spy network in Inferior Korea, right?

Maybe? They traditionally like the infiltrator route, as their "We have a billion people in our special forces" and repeated tunneling attempts prove.

Do not underestimate or trivialise the ammount of damage NK could do. War is much more complicated then who has the most soldiers/best technology.

Especially considering NK have nukes. It means attacking them could cause quite alot of grief.

I mean, don't misunderstand me, we'll kick their ass. ROK could kick their ass by themselves. However, it'd still be the bloodiest thing we've seen for many years. Insurgencies don't compare much to force on force warfare, you know?

[alexandertnt]

Does nuclear technology = nuclear armament?
Last I heard weight is a factor in missile design.

It would be very difficult to get a nuke to the US, but South Korea may be possible. All they would need is to get one through and it could cause alot of grief.

Not to forget to invade the country you would have to occupy it, so maby they could just wait for you to come to them...

I mean, don't misunderstand me, we'll kick their ass. ROK could kick their ass by themselves. However, it'd still be the bloodiest thing we've seen for many years. Insurgencies don't compare much to force on force warfare, you know?

Oh I agree. But yeah, much blood would likely be spilt, making invading NK an undesirable option.

[olemars]

There was possibly an assassination attempt on Kim Jong-Un late last year. Not from some sort of popular uprising mind you, but disgruntled elements in the top brass. It does raise question about the internal cohesion and stability of the leadership there. Particularly since a squabble over the top job at a department caused a gun battle in the streets of Pyongyang.

Additional source (translated article from South Korean newspaper): http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=2968561

Created in 2009, the Reconnaissance General Bureau is considered one of the key pillars of support for the Kim Jong-un regime. It was created by merging intelligence departments of the Workers’ Party and the South Korea operations organs under the Ministry of the People’s Armed Forces.

According to the source, officials originally from the operations department and the external liaison department of the Workers’ Party fought over leadership of the Reconnaissance General Bureau and a gun battle broke out.

After he took responsibility for the incident, Kim Yong-chol suffered a demotion to three-star general and a second demotion after Kim Jong-un was faced with an assassination attempt in Pyongyang, the source said. “The people who were purged after the gunfight could be related to the assassination attempt,” he said

[Max White]

It would be very difficult to get a nuke to the US, but South Korea may be possible. All they would need is to get one through and it could cause alot of grief.

Nuking SK has all the tactical finesse of setting your neighbors house on fire. When you find yourself dealing with the fallout too, it is less worth it. The point of war is to achieve some sort of next profit, not just kill a lot of people. When your plan is using mutually assured destruction as an offensive tactic? Well that right there is stupid.

This is assuming that NK acts in any sort of rational way, so yea, guess you're right.

[Sheb]

I think we got a consensus NK won't invade for no reasons. With all their spies, there is no way they don't understand they'd get curbstomped. And nukes are pretty efficient at deterrent.

[Owlbread]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/world/asia/north-korea-sees-south-us-behind-cyberstrikes.html?_r=0

The DPRK accuses the South and the United States of launching cyberattacks that shut down its websites.

I still think the DPRK's leadership is pushing in this way because it's the only thing they can do when they're inundated with sanctions, other than give up their nuclear program (which they will not do). If they push everyone to the brink of war, perhaps they hope they can lift some of the sanctions. It is also a way to unite the military and the people when we know there are disgruntled elements of both groups, most importantly the military as the assassination attempt showed.

[Strife26]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/world/asia/north-korea-sees-south-us-behind-cyberstrikes.html?_r=0

The DPRK accuses the South and the United States of launching cyberattacks that shut down its websites.

I still think the DPRK's leadership is pushing in this way because it's the only thing they can do when they're inundated with sanctions, other than give up their nuclear program (which they will not do). If they push everyone to the brink of war, perhaps they hope they can lift some of the sanctions. It is also a way to unite the military and the people when we know there are disgruntled elements of both groups, most importantly the military as the assassination attempt showed.

Fixed that for you.


Yeah, that and to continually foster the sense of crisis back home. I mean, if Eurasia is going to invade at any moment, what kind of citizen will rebel?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Fixed that for you.

what did you fix?