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[Sigulbard]

Ahhh, no?

North Korea has the best Starcraft players in the world. Why, the Glorious Leader for Eternity invented Starcraft, as announced by a rare, all-white sea cucumber caught by a fisherman doing his patriotic duty off the coast of . . .

No please, continue. I must familiarize myself with the history of my motherland.

[Reelya]

I don't plan on moving away anytime soon.

To be fair that is probably true of 99.9% of people...

Considering the utter economic ruination that is visiting Europe that's likely not true.

I thought Europe on the whole was typically doing better than the US in terms of economics? Or was I misinformed? It seems to change every time I hear about it. Wouldn't really surprise me either way.

America has flushed itself down the shitter, and the US media are rabidly pointing at the much milder issues in Europe to try and divert attention.

Spain, Portugal, Greece have always been some of the most backwards, poor and volatile economies of Europe, and altogether they've never even represented a large percentage of the European GDP.

Germany, the largest economy in Europe has about 3% growth and only a 1% GDP deficit. They're certainly not headed for the shitter the way America is, with about 7 x the deficit relative to GDP as Germany, even as Germany bails out the smaller countries. The Eurozone's total debt per gdp is dwarfed by the USA's total debt per gdp, even at the height of the european "debt crisis".

Total growth (2011 figures) for the EU is very close to total growth for the USA. (0.2% per annum difference for 2011, as America supposedly was recovering and Europe was supposedly collapsing).

As far as I can ascertain, the economic state in Europe is like what USA was 2-3 years ago: "oh we had those same problems in America waaay back in 2010" isn't something to be smug and superior over.

And this idea that all of Europe is like Soviet Russia where you cannot question the Great Leader sound like total B.S. to me. Look at the English punk scene. "God save the queen and her fascist regime!" Nobody ever got arrested for that.

[Sigulbard]

I don't plan on moving away anytime soon.

To be fair that is probably true of 99.9% of people...

Considering the utter economic ruination that is visiting Europe that's likely not true.

I thought Europe on the whole was typically doing better than the US in terms of economics? Or was I misinformed? It seems to change every time I hear about it. Wouldn't really surprise me either way.

Spain, Portugal, Greece have always been some of the most backwards, poor and volatile economies of Europe, and altogether they've never even represented a large percentage of the European GDP.

One thing I never bothered to look into was that how did Greece actually fall this low anyway? I have to admit I don't know much about the country's history, besides that it used to be one of the most powerful civilizations in the world, then it got conquered and some stuff happened in the Medieval ages and now it's world famous again...for being in so much debt.

[PanH]

Well, apart from Alexander the Great (and it was more macedonia), Greece hasn't really ever been very powerful.
A big factor that caused the debt is the massive fraud, and tax evasion. A large part of taxes are unpaid, hidden, and lots of people don't work officially (thus no tax). A little example.

[10ebbor10]

Yes, also there's people taking pensions for their death family members. Fraud is extremely widespread. In fact, they even lied to the EU. If they'd shown the real numbers, they would've never been allowed to join the Union.

Edit: To be fair, several countries in the EU have entered a small dubble dip crisis last year, but we're getting out of that. Positive growth is expected for most countries before the end of the year.

[MonkeyHead]

Thier government has also been pretty stupid/irresponsible with cash. A well known example is how they spent millions on a train system nobody uses due to cost - its cheaper to get a taxi than a train apparently.

[10ebbor10]

Yup, trains are in serious trouble. The railway compagny operates at a loss of 3.8 million dollars a day. It's accumulated debt is 13 billion dollars, or almost 5% of the Greek GDP.

That debt is  not counted towards the Greek debt btw, another accounting trick they used to hide their problems.

[GlyphGryph]

Sounds more like an excuse for legally giving "acquaintances" money than a legitimate train system.

[10ebbor10]

It also functions as a PR system. And it decreases unemployemt.

But yeah, several lines ride empty quite often. At this point however, the compagny pays more in debt interest than it gets revenues.

[Loud Whispers]

What about a really terrible country that is friendly to all the citizens? Imagine a fascist dictatorship run by Barney the dinosaur for example.

[Owlbread]

What about a really terrible country that is friendly to all the citizens? Imagine a fascist dictatorship run by Barney the dinosaur for example.

It's called Saudi Arabia.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What about a really terrible country that is friendly to all the citizens? Imagine a fascist dictatorship run by Barney the dinosaur for example.

It's called Saudi Arabia.

I'm not really sure that qualifies, what with all the executions and public torture and poverty.

[Owlbread]

I'm not really sure that qualifies, what with all the executions and public torture and poverty.

Yet they are considered by many to be an effective Welfare State for its citizens. The UAE is the same, and is a far better example given the practically homogenous wealth and provision of goodies amongst the Emiratis. If you don't go against the regime, you're set for life; free health care, free education, $19,000 payment toward wedding costs, subsidized utilities, the ability to claim free land and no-interest loans to build homes etc. A huge chunk of that money from the oil is going straight to the Emirati people.

[Leafsnail]

Edit: To be fair, several countries in the EU have entered a small dubble dip crisis last year, but we're getting out of that. Positive growth is expected for most countries before the end of the year.

Britain looks like it's going in for a third dip at the moment.  Who knew laying people off in the middle of a recession would cause problems??

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not really sure that qualifies, what with all the executions and public torture and poverty.

Yet they are considered by many to be an effective Welfare State for its citizens. The UAE is the same, and is a far better example given the practically homogenous wealth and provision of goodies amongst the Emiratis. If you don't go against the regime, you're set for life; free health care, free education, $19,000 payment toward wedding costs, subsidized utilities, the ability to claim free land and no-interest loans to build homes etc. A huge chunk of that money from the oil is going straight to the Emirati people.

Be that as it may, the UAE is on a damned path to destruction. They're putting their temporary rapid growth from oil into useless megaprojects and no sustainable industry or post-oil energy generation. They seem to want to rely on tourism, but they aren't making a tourist-friendly environment because the government has a large Islamist presence.