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[alamoes]

Those can be worked around.
All you have to do is conquer China!

Hmm... Yeah. Pretty much.
Though whether the iron trade is profitable enough to buy the mercenaries/ships needed to conquer China is a different story altogether.

China has iron, steel, silk, spices, manpower, and so forth, and so could buy a bigger army and navy.
Simple iron trade won't cut it.

Yep.  China IRL thinks it needs no trade at this time and goes isolationist.  I'll let this slide for now, but you probably won't be trading much together because of this.  Something pretty good would have to be given for China to open it's borders.  Like free stuff.  Or threats.  Threats work really well once you've beaten the country into submission through warfare. 

Those can be worked around.
All you have to do is conquer China!

Hmm... Yeah. Pretty much.
Though whether the iron trade is profitable enough to buy the mercenaries/ships needed to conquer China is a different story altogether.

China has iron, steel, silk, spices, manpower, and so forth, and so could buy a bigger army and navy.
Simple iron trade won't cut it.

Could Sweden team up with several other countries and together take China, then annexing a part of China?

Yep.  Indeed they can eventually.  Not immediately, minding the war in Europe of course. 

[alamoes]

Russia - check
Austria - check
Prussia - nope, we need a new Prussia.  If nobody plays as him I'll be Prussia for the turn 
France - check
Spain - check
Britain - check
Ottomans - check
China - check
Sweden - check
Ethiopia - check
USA - Czech (I had to do this eventually)

I'll be writing the update then. 

[GreatWyrmGold]

Those can be worked around.
All you have to do is conquer China!

Hmm... Yeah. Pretty much.
Though whether the iron trade is profitable enough to buy the mercenaries/ships needed to conquer China is a different story altogether.

China has iron, steel, silk, spices, manpower, and so forth, and so could buy a bigger army and navy.
Simple iron trade won't cut it.

Could Sweden team up with several other countries and together take China, then annexing a part of China?

Don't forget China's allies.

Those can be worked around.
All you have to do is conquer China!

Hmm... Yeah. Pretty much.
Though whether the iron trade is profitable enough to buy the mercenaries/ships needed to conquer China is a different story altogether.

China has iron, steel, silk, spices, manpower, and so forth, and so could buy a bigger army and navy.
Simple iron trade won't cut it.

Yep.  China IRL thinks it needs no trade at this time and goes isolationist.  I'll let this slide for now, but you probably won't be trading much together because of this.  Something pretty good would have to be given for China to open it's borders.  Like free stuff.  Or threats.  Threats work really well once you've beaten the country into submission through warfare.

We'll just see what the Chinses people have to say about their emperor's pragmatic integration of certain Western elements...

[Rolepgeek]

Yeah, that pretty much minds me...

Are you going for historical recreation? In which case China would be isolationist? Or for the Bay12 approach? Where you see what we do on our own?

[alamoes]

Yeah, that pretty much minds me...

Are you going for historical recreation? In which case China would be isolationist? Or for the Bay12 approach? Where you see what we do on our own?

I'm going for a mix.  You guys can do certain things really quickly, but if China wanted an alliance with Russia it would have been fine, but you guys are forcing a circle through a square on this one.  In fifteen to twenty turns if China and Japan keep pressuring the country to modernize, there will be civil war.  That will take a little while, but once the Napoleonic War is over, turns will go much faster, unless you guys have a plan with what to do in that time. 

Sweden

Sweden is at war with France and Spain.  Sweden has pretty much nothing wrong with it.

What about the poor soil, small population and relative lack of manufacturing capabilities? I might have left this game, but that doesn't mean I still can't complain about it, damn it!

Compared to Russia, That's nothing.  They will have problems later, don't worry.  In fact it is because pf all that.  Anyways remember, the factory has not been invented yet, and Sweden still has a few decades before those problems effect anything.  I pmed him about it after the update.  Everyone has been PMing me except Spain and obviously Prussia.  You only see half of what is going on.   

[Rolepgeek]

Ooh! I just realized something.

Russia will be happy to be the country that loans out money for all of your guys' wars. To both sides. And then you have to pay us back. With interest.

Of course if you don't take out a loan and your enemy does, then you're at risk of them paying it back with the money you were saving up for that new cannon (regiment)...

[Emral282]

...
You do realize that you are AT WAR with one of the sides in the war right Russia?
Loaning money to your enemies in the middle of a war is normally not seen as a smart military strategy.

[intelligentmoron]

I'm going for a mix.  You guys can do certain things really quickly, but if China wanted an alliance with Russia it would have been fine, but you guys are forcing a circle through a square on this one.  In fifteen to twenty turns if China and Japan keep pressuring the country to modernize, there will be civil war.  That will take a little while, but once the Napoleonic War is over, turns will go much faster, unless you guys have a plan with what to do in that time. 

Bring it on, the Japanese have a long and honorable tradition fighting civil war! It's practically a national past-time.

[Rolepgeek]

Eh. I didn't necessarily mean this war. There will be others.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not planning to Westernize China, don't be ridiculous. Was the shipping industry stoverized when it incorporated steamships? No! Just take a few concepts, make them Chinese, and use them to make China all the greater.

[intelligentmoron]

I'm not planning to Westernize China, don't be ridiculous. Was the shipping industry stoverized when it incorporated steamships? No! Just take a few concepts, make them Chinese, and use them to make China all the greater.

A noble effort but with a few snags. This isn't the equivalent of introducing a new piece of equipment to an industry, this is Is introducing a whole new way of life which is intrinsically and necessarily opposed to every value and philosophy towards life the chinese hold dear. It's hard to imagine simply taking the benefits of western technology without the societal change and revolution the must come along with it.

[Rolepgeek]

Necessarily and intrinsically opposed to every philosophy and value?

Yeah...no.The chinese invented guns, I don't think that getting better ones is opposed to their every philosophy and value.

[intelligentmoron]

Perhaps It was a bit hyperbolic but the point is still not changed. Western technology will bring about cultural change whether anyone wants it to or not, and that reason was a big arguement behind China's isolationist principles.

[alamoes]

Yeah I'm back.  We went out to dinner.  It was nice.  The update is Woolongong.  I don't even know what that means it just came up in the spell check box It is a region in Australia.  I've decided to get the war over with first, and it is taking a long time.  Half the page is dice rolls that ended in a tie.  :/  Stalemate!  I *might* be able to get the update out in an hour if a certain nation starts getting its superior army together and winning battles.  Five is the limit though.  I'm at two, and will probably hit that number or even four if the battles this heavy.  Longer battles mean higher casualties on one side. 

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not planning to Westernize China, don't be ridiculous. Was the shipping industry stoverized when it incorporated steamships? No! Just take a few concepts, make them Chinese, and use them to make China all the greater.

A noble effort but with a few snags. This isn't the equivalent of introducing a new piece of equipment to an industry, this is Is introducing a whole new way of life which is intrinsically and necessarily opposed to every value and philosophy towards life the chinese hold dear. It's hard to imagine simply taking the benefits of western technology without the societal change and revolution the must come along with it.

Perhaps some extent, but that doesn't mean I need to adopt Western culture. Changes? Probable. Western Xerox? Improbable.