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[intelligentmoron]

I wouldn't be so sure.
Traits of the soldiers involved are taken into account in this and soldier to soldier the French are far superior to the Russians.
Superior enough that they have an equal chance of winning if the French tactics are good.

"Quantity has a quality all its own" ~ Joseph Stalin
Simply having more soldiers may be a big enough morale boost for the Russians to tip the balance

[Deny]

Russians normally rely on far superior numbers than this (At least in this time period) however one still shouldn't underestemate the russian solder, one on one a french troop is better, but this isn't one on one and russians are still good solders

[Brood]

Yea it does, did you see how many times as many Russians died as Germans?
If it goes to that ratio here Russia is going to get rofl stomped.
Besides this is more likely to be won by morale and as far as I'm aware no French army ever broke under Napoleons direct command.
If that holds true the Russians are going to need a miracle otherwise this is going to be a very close run battle.

Russians are good I know but this battle comes down to morale more then anything else and the French are almost impossible to break unless they kill Napoleon himself, kill him and they'll turn and run in seconds but until then they are pretty likely to fight to the death.
How much punishment will the Russians take before they break?

[Deny]

French army breaking, waterloo
And the quality of the Germans and russians in world war 2 was a much bigger gap than in this time period, also the weapons of the time favoured quality over quantity, (except in overwhelming amounts, as the russians proved) in this period of time numbers mean more than they did in ww2

[GreatWyrmGold]

(( Depends on the enemy, numbers, terrain, who you are.
It's a tactic but thats all it is, it's not good or bad it all comes down to the situation. ))

Well, yes, that's the general idea I was getting at. I was merely pointing out the difference which each side seemed to be assuming one side or the other of.

[intelligentmoron]

Humans haven't invented technology as good at killing yet so I doubt it'll go to that particular ratio, considering the Russians outnumber the enemy, are an all volunteer force, and have been brainwashed by propaganda I think they might fight it out to the end.

The French might not break but Napoleon has been known to retreat, especially from the Russian Bear. 

[Brood]

They broke once when facing possibly the single greatest military commander of the decade, some of Britains best men, were flanked by a large Prussian force and had fought the first army to a standstill.
And even then only part of the French army broke.

If the French withstand the first attack and push back they stand a fair chance of routing the Russians.
Also quality is still very important, it was a proven factor in the British and Prussians ability to fight off superior numbers that it was troop quality, they fired 3 volleys to the enemies 2 in most cases sometimes even 4 to the enemies 2.
That was down entirely to the superior quality of the soldiers involved.

As far as I'm aware the French were superior quality to the Russians so I'd expect this to be a close run battle.

I think the Russians will break first, as was said men prefer to live when they have the chance, the Russians can retreat and come back again later with more men, if the French break then France itself is in danger.
Discipline is what prevents an army from breaking and the Russians in this era were more of a zerg rush style then a disciplined style.

[Deny]

The French might not break but Napoleon has been known to retreat, especially from the Russian Bear. 

Since when?
But yeah, machine guns, tanks, aircraft and explosive artillery was much more efficient at mass killing than bayonets, muskets and organ guns, as I said, quality meant much more in ww2 than it does now
Also russians are volunteers, french are conscripts, (At least some are) and the russians are still diciplined solders, so morals may be quite even or in russias favour

[Brood]

Not disciplined in the same way as the French.
They can march in step and form a line but in this era that was about the limit.
In battle they quickly lost cohesion and more often then not could not even fire a real massed volley.

Conscription for the French is a very small problem, 90% of the conscripts would willingly die for Napoleon purely because thats the kind of man he was, he inspired almost fanatical loyalty in his soldiers, conscripts or not.
The only counter to that was iron discipline which the Russians do not have, numbers even the fight but not enough to give them a significant advantage.

[intelligentmoron]

 

The French might not break but Napoleon has been known to retreat, especially from the Russian Bear. 

Since when?
But yeah, machine guns, tanks, aircraft and explosive artillery was much more efficient at mass killing than bayonets, muskets and organ guns, as I said, quality meant much more in ww2 than it does now
Also russians are volunteers, french are conscripts, (At least some are) and the russians are still diciplined solders, so morals may be quite even or in russias favour

Since the great patriotic war of 1812 of course!

Him and his grand army running crying all the way back to Paris, after burning Moscow of course but Russia has iron will of thousand suns! 

The French will put up a hell of a fight going down though, no question, and they'll make the Russians pay for every mile.

[Brood]

The Russians won't make it, if by some chance they manage to win this fight the French will come back with a bigger army before the year is out and wipe them out.

Trust me you'll need more then 240,000 men to take France.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The Russians won't make it, if by some chance they manage to win this fight the French will come back with a bigger army before the year is out and wipe them out.

Yes, because invading Russia always ends so well.

[intelligentmoron]

that's in the future though, this battle is Russia's in my book, maybe not the campaign but certainly the battle.

[Brood]

The army not Russia, they can't even reach Russia at the moment they'd have to go through me to do it and I'm not about to let that happen, by the time they try that entire border will be a fortified wall of soldiers.
They might be able to punch a hole but the men they'd lose to do it would never be worth it.

At best France can hope to repel the current invasion it has no method of retaliation.

I'm banking on France winning this but only on a 51-49 split.
I give France a very slight edge based purely on Napoleons influence, he had a way of taking the impossible and spitting in it's face.

[intelligentmoron]

Napoleon always does throw a wrench in the best laid plans doesn't he?

Magnificent bastard.