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[Jervill]

Especially since that problem was fixed in Season 4 showing Vulcans had lost their way and the Vulcans were infinitely more in character the rest of the series.  It shouldn't have had to be fixed, true, but the 3-parter that was the "Vulcan Reawakening" really did set the tone that ENT Season 4 was infinitely better than the rest of the series up to that point.

DS9 also showed the Vulcans as a bit arrogant, too, IIRC.  So that might be what Neonivek is referring to.

EDIT: Although to be fair, Vulcans did need a flaw.  In TOS, Spock was basically the invincible alien who was immune to everything, stronger than everyone, and had an inner eyelid that somehow prevented blindness.

[Solifuge]

So, being The Amazing Paris Spock would probably be Ok as long as I was on the Enterprise (or have become the all-powerful and somewhat quixotic Ambassador he later becomes) and could live up to my role.  And didn't take too much LDS.

This has nothing to do with anything you posted except for the very last part, but...
Captain Kirk has taken too much fucking LSD.

[Starver]

This has nothing to do with anything you posted except for the very last part, but...
Captain Kirk has taken too much fucking LSD.

You know, I think I can remember the episode plots from which most of the video has been ripped (also they've cheated with some non-Trek stuff in there[1]), but can't be a true Trekkie/Trekker as I can't remember the titles...

Anyway, good, but I still remember Star Trekking with fondness...


[1] Unless I mistook myself, includes the Tucana Singers from (original) Battlestar Galactica, some of the Flash Gordon 'football' guys, and Lycia Naff's 'Mary, the Prostitute with a 50% extra' from Total Recall.

[Neonivek]

If you're going off of Enterprise's version of the Vulcans, then well... you really shouldn't.

NOPE! I don't even have to touch that to get the theme of "Vulcans are irrational pompous egomaniacs who only believed they were logical."

Heck the latest Startrek movie pretty much encapsulates how much of a big jerk they all are. Since apparently children who have been through the ritual to suppress their emotions just choose to make fun of people who are different...

Meaning that it is an official Vulcan tradition to be outright xenophobic and racist.

Vulcans are Jerks... Don't think of a second Enterprise was the ones who invented that. They were just the ones to stop pretending.

[Euld]

If you're going off of Enterprise's version of the Vulcans, then well... you really shouldn't.

Heck the latest Startrek movie--

AHA HA HA HA HA
The Star Trek in the latest Star Trek movie took place in a magical-in-the-past-but-somehow-a-convenient-parallel-universe with more plot holes than swiss cheese and inconsistencies galore with not just Star Trek canon, but real life physics and even the movie's own crazy logic.  Enterprise and the newest Star Trek movies are non-canon, as they should be.  You're gonna have to pull examples from some real Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, possibly Voyager, even the movies too) if you want me to believe the Vulcans are... all those words you said before.

[Neonivek]

You're gonna have to pull examples from some real Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, possibly Voyager, even the movies too) if you want me to believe the Vulcans are... all those words you said before

Like the original series where someone actually attempts to have Spock killed because it was convenient for them and it is portrayed as "Normal behavior" for Vulcans to be that backstabbing?

[Euld]

Much better.  Though more information besides "someone," something more like a link to the clip or the episode name would be nice.  But anyway.

[Neonivek]

The episode where Kirk Fought Spock on Vulcan.

Oddly enough, the one logical thing she never thought of... Was talking to Spock.

[Sergius]

I know a lot of people hate Enteprise, but it's canon.

[Euld]

*researches*

oh god you're right ._.  The worst, most inconsistent Star Trek series and the one that outright killed Star Trek is canon.  Yay.

Back to complaining about the inconsistency of Star Trek guys.  Use Enterprise and the newest movie as proof.  I'll go drown my sorrows in Romulan ale.

[Sergius]

In fact, the only thing that saves you from having to consider the new movies, is that they are in an alternate past. Probably canon tho, but since everything we see is from the divergence point (save for a few details like how Federation weapons work?) even the behavior of the Vulcans could have been affected.

I myself can only explain Spock's brand new irascible personality in something that happened when history changed. Like, I don't know, maybe Kirk's dad's ship had an important shipment of ear sharpeners for Vulcan, which pissed them off greatly.

[Starver]

*researches*

oh god you're right ._.  The worst, most inconsistent Star Trek series and the one that outright killed Star Trek is canon.  Yay.

My take on Enterprise was that the Time War thing that they were getting involved in was going to be part of the reasoning behind all continuity problems that may (or indeed would) crop up, as they try to put a decent contemporary gloss on the Trek universe in places where it would seem incompatible with the matt finish of TOS.

Thus things like whether or not Humanity had met the Klingons, etc, weren't canon-errors, but (would be, it turns out) revised historical facts that would allow K/H interactions with Archer's Enterprise (and, indeed, the rest of the proto Starfleet) yet still 'lead' to Kirk's own problematic 'First Contact' with them by the time his own era came around...

I quite enjoyed seeing how they introduced (for example) the development of the Transporter (first for cargo only, then reluctantly man-capable in time for a desperate emergency, etc...) and other shout-outs.


Of course, I recognise that what I am saying is that anything seen as consistent is one thing (yay!) and anything seen as inconsistent is another thing (double-yay), when either or both such things could be down to the writers just not caring or taking enough care to be seen to care about 'original canon'.  Or intentionally going all Reboot on us (like the previous reboot movie, with its own reasoning behind it), whereupon I'm seizing on the 'accidental constants' as deliberate eggs of easter yumminess.  The picture may be blurred in both directions.


As a sample of one (albeit a sample of duration equivalent to several 'raw' episodes of Enterprise/etc), the up-till-now latest Trek film is actually hard to comment on w.r.t. such revisionism.  I suspect that they'll have a universe that 'bends' back towards established canon, though, even though a number of noted deviations away from this are definitely left behind for us to ponder.

Of course, whatever the treatment you'll find someone who resents it.  Often mutually-exclusive to another person's opinion who would resent it if it weren't the depicted way.  I'm probably more easily pleased and willow-tree flexible in this matter.  Which some might find annoying in the way.  (However, I can reassure you that there are things that I would dig my heals in about, given the chance.

[Euld]

*glug* *glug* *glug*

I could sum up my opinion like this: it's obvious the writers of Enterprise gave little to no effort to create continuity with the rest of Star Trek, so why should anyone else put any effort into trying to imagine up ways for their bad writing to have continuity with the rest of Star Trek?

I'll be honest, TOS has no matte finish when it comes to continuity.  Far from it.  Even how they fire phasers changed often (I remember seeing white pulses in one episode, then blue beams in another, then in a movie, longish orange pulses).  But later on that continuity was set in place, I'd say TNG was where it was set in place.  Warp cores run on anti-matter, dythilium crystals are involved in warp drive somehow, phasers fired blue until the movies where they were orange, so on.  The thing is, if the Temporal Cold War was meant to be an excuse to cover up continuity issues, I'd slap the writer who thought that was a good idea and fire his ass for pretty much admitting he can't do his research.

The writers of Enterprise managed some half-hearted shoutouts while breaking continuity like a twigs in a forest.  Maybe it's different for me because I'm a writer and I know managing information like this isn't particularly difficult.  Or I have high standards and expect my prequels and sequels to respect the work they're supposed to be continuing.  Historical fiction is expected (and often applauded) for getting little bits of info right, so why does Star Trek suddenly have a double standard because it's pure fiction?  And why am I suddenly the bad guy for expecting quality writing?  The producers paid good money for the filming equipment, the makeup, the wardrobe, the props, the sets, the actors (well mostly), the special effects, the 3D models flying around in space, and who knows what else.  But suddenly there's no need to hire writers who can do fucking 8th grade skills like research or double check your work or know/cite your sources.

*glug* *glug* *passes out*

[Haspen]

*Dilithium crystals, Mr.President

[Jervill]

Once Manny Coto was promoted to producer in Enterprise, the show was nothing but continuity porn. (Season 4).
After ending the stupid Temporal Cold War arc:
Augments, making the Vulcans logical again, early part of founding of the Federation, Romulans being sneaky Romulans and avoiding being seen, Klingon forehead ridges problem explained, and Orions.

And no, Enterprise didn't "kill" Star Trek, UPN "killed" Star Trek.  Most of Enterprise's early problems can be attributed to executives not knowing what they were doing. (Voyager had similar problems in its later seasons.)