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Author Topic: Thief 4 - Too polarizing to state quality in the sub-title  (Read 13120 times)

nenjin

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2013, 12:07:52 pm »

Well here's some brief gameplay footage: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/theres-thief-4-gameplay-footage-too/

While it's never wise to judge a game based on 2 minutes of gameplay, I find it telling that this is what the developers chose to show.

The question was even put to the dev "So what makes you a Thief in this?" The devs response amounted to "Oh, this sneaking around bad guys and taking them out, feeling really powerful."

They say their feedback was that players wanted to be able to defend themselves when they fuck up, instead of "it being game over if you're seen by a guard." Really? Game over huh? I guess the pile of dead guards I'd create when that happened was not me actually playing the game. So now combat is set up for you to kill bunches of guys like a ninja, because that's totally being able to defend yourself when you make a mistake.

They say they feel like they've found a good balance between action and stealth. What does that look like?

How about:

-Focus showing you critical spots on an enemy you can strike in melee to stumble or stun them.
-Focus allowing you to point blank shoot guys in the face with a bow.
-Focus letting you do headshots to guys at distance by increasing your aim.

Is there any experience system that rewards combat badassery? You bet! Hey, anyone remember Deus Ex, where the XP system "encouraged" you to play non-lethal, and take out every single enemy in the level, because it's what granted the most xp and let you get the most mods? Yeah. You know what I didn't see? Getting xp for being sneaky.

Shadow seems important, there's Water Arrows again and dynamic lighting. They say the typical "the game is about playing your way and it adapts to your play style", implying the game is just as interesting and engrossing when played stealth as when played aggressively.

Again, to me it's about what the devs chose to show. And what they chose to show was a mostly combat-focused, assassin-style play style, where there's new specific features dedicated to combat badassery. Stealth gets a token nod in the playthrough, and is talked up, but is not shown with the same emphasis. Instead of showing, perhaps, one of the open areas of the game, they opted for what seemed to be more of a corridor level. Not enough was shown to really make that determination with surety.

So yeah. It looks like Dishonored, frankly, and its feature set seems to share that same mentality of "stealth and combat are equally important." It's hard to know what the actual thief aspects of the game are though because they're not showing them and they completely ducked the question when asked. I expect a lot of unavoidable combat in the game, because it seems to me "a whole game you can stealth through wouldn't work today" is the kind of thing a suit would say.
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Alkhemia

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2013, 12:23:03 pm »

So basicly another series murdered and turn into an abomination looking like it will be a pass for me and I had such high hopes.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2013, 02:10:42 pm »

So yeah. It looks like Dishonored, frankly, and its feature set seems to share that same mentality of "stealth and combat are equally important." It's hard to know what the actual thief aspects of the game are though because they're not showing them and they completely ducked the question when asked. I expect a lot of unavoidable combat in the game, because it seems to me "a whole game you can stealth through wouldn't work today" is the kind of thing a suit would say.

I knew it. I absolutely freaking knew it. My pessimism wasn't unwarranted for once!!
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2013, 02:18:21 pm »

I don't usually double post, but.. Um... Did he just get detected, start fighting two guards with a 'Fallout3 Pause and choose target' attack, change weapons to the bow, go into slow-mo and headshot them both, all while directly in front of them? Or did I just have some kind of a terrible future vision of how people think stealth games should work? This isn't Thief, nor is it a modern reboot of the series. This is Dishonored with a fucking idiotic combat system, 100%. Takedown headshot yeah! It's like they think Garret is Batman.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 02:20:11 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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sjm9876

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2013, 02:34:02 pm »

Speaking of which this screenshot is rather Arkham asylum reminiscent :P

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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2013, 02:46:30 pm »

Right Trigger to win.
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Virtz

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2013, 03:49:19 pm »

I'm not really sure about this, honestly. Like I recall predicting action garbage with DE: HR after that game's first gameplay showing. Turned out that, barring the boss fights, it was about as close to a modern Deux Ex as we were ever gonna get. I don't really like the stuff shown in the gameplay demo, but I'm holding out that slim hope that they're just trying to appeal to impatient people who think stealth is teh ghey, sort of like I thought the initial DE: HR gameplay demo did.
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scriver

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2013, 03:54:38 pm »

Disappointment.
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Drakale

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2013, 04:27:05 pm »

I don't dislike the VAT's like thing for close combat, but it should absolutely not be used for ranged combat as it remove any kind of skill factor to taking down enemies.

Let me clarify about the vats, if it let you do some special actions that are not instant win, like say trip a guard, or disarm him it could be really interesting. If it turn into a quick take down type of thing, it's really bad. I don't have high hopes though because they already shown that knocking a guard out from height is just about pressing that trigger button...
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nenjin

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2013, 04:29:19 pm »

Yeah, in truth, I do kind of like the vats melee combat thing. I'm just not sure for this game if it's right. And the way it gets used by the people who made it doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that it's well-thought out, or that it has a lot of nuance.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
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Haschel

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Re: Thief 4 - Combat McBadass strikes again
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2013, 04:41:07 pm »

I try to be pretty open-minded about modern games and take them for what they are, but a part of my inner-child died when Garrett got +40 XP for a head-shot. Eidos Montreal did a good job with Deus Ex though, so I'll reserve judgement until I get my hands on it.
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nenjin

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Re: Thief 4 - A New Mope
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2013, 06:02:44 pm »

http://kotaku.com/were-just-not-sure-about-the-new-thief-heres-why-837598751?rev=1374247332

A new Kotaku article on the game. I found it interesting because first it agreed with my negative expectations, then uplifted me with some choice quotes about the realities of developing video games, then kind of came back down to Earth to rest on ambiguity, as is the lot of most people paying attention to games prior to release.

Anyways, if you're interested in the newest game, it's worth a read.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Moogie

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Re: Thief 4 - A New Mope
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2013, 07:46:07 pm »

Man, it really sucks that new games these days have such a hard-on for wobbly camera effects. They never give you an option to disable it, either. That gameplay demo made me feel ill.

Also, I saw two guards walk through eachother like ghosts. Lol.
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nenjin

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Re: Thief 4 - Judgment Day is at hand
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2014, 09:41:22 pm »

So this just went gold.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

foil

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Re: Thief 4 - Judgment Day is at hand
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2014, 05:34:25 pm »

I just hope they tweaked the stealth so its actually required rather than being optional..

Im almost done with Splinter Cell BL and although im having a good time, stealthing or ghosting feels more a self imposed restriction rather than a necessity.

Ive been stealthing and trying to ghost all the way but its just too easy and cheap an option to pull out guns and cap or judo chop your way through the levels.  Just wish they would add proper challenge and tension to games rather than giving an easy route out for the CoD fans or the few that didnt know what they were buying to save them from frustration.
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