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[maddwarf]

I managed to figure out how to get my squads wearing armour (by replacing clothing instead of trying to force them to wear both types) but is there any way to train them up a bit faster? They've been at it for months but are largely still Dabbling or Novice in combat skills. The only real soldier I've got is my militia commander, who's fairly good, but sending in the troops (2 squads, 10 men total) to clean up two remaining goblins after a siege attempt led to 2 dead dwarves

Is there a simple way to sharpen up these hapless sword-flailing dullards?

[Urist_McUser]

>Is there a simple way to sharpen up these hapless sword-flailing dullards?

A danger room turns your conscripts within seconds into legendary killing machines.

[maddwarf]

Hmm, yes - I'd heard of danger rooms but was hoping to avoid them, as it looks like they tend towards being an exploit, unless the only other option is to wait for the regular training.

[osunightfall]

If you don't want to use an exploit, your options are limited to a few less than fantastic options:
1. Divide your dwarves into squads of 2 with similar skill levels and the same weapons and have them train constantly.
2. Have your military hunt wild animals. Depending on the animals, hunting with training weapons is fairly effective.
3. Use cage traps to capture invaders, and use them to train up your military in more controlled conditions. Training weapons help here too. This is still a bit dangerous from time to time though. I lost half a squad of recruits to an elite insectoid wrestler. See the wiki on "Mass Pitting".

Unless you put everyone into two man squads or use one of the above methods, it's likely you'll never see results. I had a squad in my latest fort train every waking moment for almost five years, and at the end of that the best of them was "Skilled." In the meantime, I'd trained up dozens of other legendaries in a variety of skills.

Sadly, military training is terribly broken at the moment. Yes, there are a few ways to game the system and have it deliver okay results, but anybody who tells you the system is working correctly is crazy. If the system worked, danger rooms would go the way of the dodo.

[chevil]

It is best to use dwarves with existing weapon skills because the first levels in weapon skills are hardest to acquire.

[vanatteveldt]

Would it sound realistic (or even fun) to you if you could train a new army from fresh recruits in 2 months (or even a year) and then send them into the field and expect them to win without any losses?

The way I look at it, dwarfs are pretty cheap, so losing up to 10 each year in combat is no big deal. As they become more experienced (and real combat is one of the best training grounds out there) they also become less likely to die.

I agree that danger rooms are exploitative. Arenas, on the other hand....

[Mushroo]

The answer to this question is well documented on the wiki and hundreds (if not thousands) of threads on these forums about this very topic.

Your two biggest mistakes were creating 10 member squads and starting with untrained/novice soldiers.

A squad of 2 legendary fighters will outperform a squad of 10 novices every single time.

But your biggest biggest mistake was not simply finishing off the goblins from a distance with crossbows. Think about it in real life: would you tell 10 marine cadets to run up to the enemy and whack them with their rifle butts? Or shoot them from behind cover at a safe distance?

[krenshala]

Six months of training should get your dwarves to at least Competent, if not Skilled, in their assigned weapon.

• Make sure you set the orders to be five instances of "Training minimum 2". If you don't want to do this, then don't put more than four dwarves in a squad.
• Make sure the squad isn't using mixed weapon types; hammerdwarves don't need to know the finer points of slapping goblins with the flat of  your sword, or how to use a spear like a surgeon's scalpel or butcher's knife, after all.

[maddwarf]

Thanks for the input here guys.

The cage trap idea sounds interesting - I do happen to have about 8 caged goblins sitting around, so I might try unleashing the troops on them until they train up or someone dies (preferably the former).

In hindsight I should have made clear that I selected the troops with Dwarf Therapist before consigning them to training, and tried to pick ones that had skills in important things (like Axedwarf/Macedwarf, etc), but unfortunately none of them had/have any decent ability in actual combat, like Dodging/Armor User and the like. That's the main difficulty really.

Realistic it may not be, vanatteveldt, but unfortunately my chances of surviving a siege are also less than realistic if I don't get these blighters trained up. I suppose I do take the loss of each military dwarf quite badly though, especially when it seems like they were training for so long, only to then be cut down by a few goblin stragglers.

Thanks also for the advice on training specifics, krenshala - I'll give it a try for the ones that aren't getting themselves killed against goblin prisoners.

[Laserhead]

If you manage to cage a necromancer (or get one as an immigrant) you can use him to provide a never ending supply of training dummies. I can train up squads of crossbows as fast as my weaponsmith can pump out copper bolts.

[BoredVirulence]

If you really need to survive, marksdwarves. 10 dabbling marksdwarves can do some serious damage if behind a fortification. I had 1 competent marksdwarf kill off(well, cripple) a 10 goblin ambush. They are better with skill, but an easier way to get more firepower is to add more marksdwarves. Train them on anything, wandering animals, hordes of trogdolytes, anything.

I agree though, you would think after a full year of training you could get at least competant fighters. I suppose the problem is trying to teach recruits with novices though. You could try and danger room 1 solider, maybe hack it so he has a high teaching skill, and let him be the instructor. And if you want it to feel less cheaty, don't use him in a fight, pretend he is a neutral combat consultant that won't help fight battles for your fortress, just teach how to fight.

[Psieye]

I'm sure the wiki has covered this by now, but check the link in my sig if not.

Short summary:
- Unskilled oafs cannot teach unskilled oafs.
- Unskilled oafs can at least spar with unskilled oafs so they learn something together.
- Getting dwarves to spar instead of some other form of training is why everyone recommends setting up 2-man training teams (be it by splitting squads up or by multiple stacked training orders).
- It's better to embark with someone competent at combat and TEACHING.
- It's better still to have someone "learn the hard way" (hunting, arena, live combat) and then make them give lectures to everyone else.

[A_S00]

Why are danger rooms an exploit?  You put dwarves in a room where they constantly have to dodge/deflect blows with armor, and they get better at dodging and moving around in armor.  Seems very much in the spirit of both DF's skill-based advancement system and Rocky-style training montages.

[chevil]

Why are danger rooms an exploit?  You put dwarves in a room where they constantly have to dodge/deflect blows with armor, and they get better at dodging and moving around in armor.  Seems very much in the spirit of both DF's skill-based advancement system and Rocky-style training montages.

Have you used danger rooms? Where is the fun in getting a squad of legendary soliders in just a season.

[ObiWorm]

I usually make the invaders pass through a corridor with traps (not full of them, just a few traps to give them the chance to avoid them). At the end of it I place the militia and a squad of marksdwarves supporting them.

That way they fight less enemies and some of them are partially injuried. That way the soldiers fight with advantage and have a better chance to level up. Of course some of them die or are injuried in the process, but... it's a war after all.

After a few battles they reach a level high enough to hold a squad of goblins by themselves.

I also try to select only migrants who know how to swing a weapon in the first place, but if I can't I try to have a huge army. One of them will score a hit eventually, right?