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[Gizogin]

Has anyone here heard of Saint Olcan?  I remember reading about him a long time ago, but I can't find any details about his life or what made him so saintly.  This has been really bothering me.

[Fniff]

Read about him in a horrible histories book, so the following knowledge may or may not be accurate, but hey.

Saint Olcan's dad died before he was born, and from the grief his mother also died before he was born. He ended up getting born in the grave, and the only reason he survived was because a gravekeeper heard him cry and dug him up. This apparently made him a saint. I'm not sure if this is true because the rules for making someone a saint usually have to involve a miracle, the person being Christian, and the person being dead. Then again, the latest person for sainthood was during the holocaust and took the place of another person about to be sent to the gas chambers without doing anything supernatural, so maybe the rules are bendable.

[Frumple]

... got nothing that a google for "Saint Olcan life" sans quotes wouldn't get you.

Only thing I'm seeing you might miss is that he's apparently also known as Saint Bolcan. Insofar as I can tell the biggest thing that may have contributed to sainthood was being a disciple of Saint Patrick and doing some solid churchwork in his area.

Re: The mother's grave thing, she apparently died of ague (which is... probably malaria?), not some much grief And apparently was in the grave seven days, which may have helped. Blazes if I know.

[Fniff]

Never got that "dying by grief/despair" thing. That seems to mainly effect people who turn into ghosts in subpar horror stories.

[Loud Whispers]

Never got that "dying by grief/despair" thing. That seems to mainly effect people who turn into ghosts in subpar horror stories.

Mammals invented it :/

[Fniff]

What didn't they invent? I can't really think of many notable inventions by insects.

[Frumple]

... science probably disagrees. We're still stealing good ideas from the lil'buggers. Plenty of medical stuffs, number of construction and engineering tricks. Probably some other stuff.

[Meta]

Hehe, searching for "Saint Olcan" on Google gives this topic as the 6th link. Awesome.

[Kadzar]

Read about him in a horrible histories book, so the following knowledge may or may not be accurate, but hey.

Saint Olcan's dad died before he was born, and from the grief his mother also died before he was born. He ended up getting born in the grave, and the only reason he survived was because a gravekeeper heard him cry and dug him up. This apparently made him a saint. I'm not sure if this is true because the rules for making someone a saint usually have to involve a miracle, the person being Christian, and the person being dead. Then again, the latest person for sainthood was during the holocaust and took the place of another person about to be sent to the gas chambers without doing anything supernatural, so maybe the rules are bendable.

You don't think being born of a dead woman counts as a miracle?

[Frumple]

Considering it happens occasionally, not really. It's not an unknown thing for a mother to die before birth and the child still survive. Pretty rare, but it happens now, and it happened before medicine made that sort of survival more likely. And considering the mortality rate for mothers giving birth was considerably higher back then, it happening from time to time innit exactly miraculous. Fairly unlikely, but nothing strange.

[Spaghetti7]

Considering it happens occasionally, not really. It's not an unknown thing for a mother to die before birth and the child still survive. Pretty rare, but it happens now, and it happened before medicine made that sort of survival more likely. And considering the mortality rate for mothers giving birth was considerably higher back then, it happening from time to time innit exactly miraculous. Fairly unlikely, but nothing strange.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/brooklyn-couple-killed-baby-survives

[Kadzar]

Well, I don't know what the official Catholic definition of "miracle" is, but most religious folk I know consider anything really unlikely happening to be a miracle. If he was born of a dead mother, who was then buried, and he managed to survive being buried alive as infant, and then was dug up when a gravekeeper happened to be near enough to hear his cries, it would fulfill that definition of a miracle.

[Frumple]

Mm... yeah, point. From that angle it might fit, and I have seen that usage before.

"Statistically unlikely" just seems a pretty darn weak definition for miracle, though

I prefer the good ol'physically (and/or causally) impossible (barring the influence of the presumed divine, anyway.). Makes things less fuzzy.

[miauw62]

Read about him in a horrible histories book, so the following knowledge may or may not be accurate, but hey.

Saint Olcan's dad died before he was born, and from the grief his mother also died before he was born. He ended up getting born in the grave, and the only reason he survived was because a gravekeeper heard him cry and dug him up. This apparently made him a saint. I'm not sure if this is true because the rules for making someone a saint usually have to involve a miracle, the person being Christian, and the person being dead. Then again, the latest person for sainthood was during the holocaust and took the place of another person about to be sent to the gas chambers without doing anything supernatural, so maybe the rules are bendable.

Father Damien? Then again, he lived before WW2, but he was declared saint in 2009

[Gizogin]

Read about him in a horrible histories book, so the following knowledge may or may not be accurate, but hey.

Hey, me too!  That's the only reason I know the name at all.  Do the Catholic Church seriously not have records about this sort of thing?