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[Vector]

Given the game size, I expect 2p.  I guess it could be 3p or 2p + 3rd party, though, if the town's really stacked with power roles.  The latter's slightly more likely because 3rd party often causes trouble for scum, too.

I do not think it is currently LYLO.

[Hapah]

Hapah: You sure you aren't one of those false positive cops?

Don't know how I could know; but there's nothing hinting at it.

Meph: Are bastard roles (naive/paranoid cops etc.) possible?

...I'm asking this because Solifuge also says there are 3 scum...I can't for the love of me see anything giving the exact # out there in Meph's posts.

I didn't see it either, and I personally find 3 scum kind of unlikely from a balance perspective (though Gods knows what roles Meph has thrown into it, so I've probably got a shaky idea of overall game balance at best). I'm not really worried about a third scum until we find the first two, though.

PPE: Yeah, I've kind of got the idea of 2 scum + 1 3rd party in the back of my head too, but there's obviously no way to know for certain.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I'm going to try to point the main problem in your thesis here with one word.

Leafsnail.

You forgot the leafy snail right there in the equation - while I guess you didn't think I already thought about your proposition, there was a snail in the works, making it all the more complicated. Somehow, you're insinuating that I'm along the lines of defending Vector when I did state my stance on her.

Humor me. If I'm Vector's buddy, explain why in the world we'd be targeting the same target during the night?

You are being willfully ignorant here. The WHOLE POINT of that "thesis" was to point out that IF VECTOR FLIPS TOWN (a condition you stated in the text I was responding to), then your reasons for Hapah being suspect are FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

It goes like this:

You: "If Vector flips town, Hapah would be the most suspicious for getting a scum result on her."
Me: "If she's telling the truth (and a townie would have no reason to lie), then she redirected him to Deathsword and so HE's scum, not Hapah."
You "But Leafsnail, and things."

What was even the point of that?

[Tiruin]

You: "If Vector flips town, Hapah would be the most suspicious for getting a scum result on her."
Me: "If she's telling the truth (and a townie would have no reason to lie), then she redirected him to Deathsword and so HE's scum, not Hapah."
You "But Leafsnail, and things."

What was even the point of that?

Ok, let's put the situation in a Vector = Townie. situation.

If Vector - town. Then her redirect - Hapah > DS.
DS = Scum.
However, LS says that Vector targeted him. Meaning she either hit Hapah to redirect ONTO LS, OR, she redirected LS...onto whomever.
That's where the paths divide. LS. He's saying that Vector targeted him. While he could be bluffing, I tested it:
> I stated that I targeted him. He stated, point blank, that he also subtly knew that I targeted him. Now, at that point in time, nobody could know if I'm bluffing or not. He could either be playing a real risky gambit. But its true - I did target him, and nothing came of it [My result].

So hence that case. While Hapah's investigate on Vector is really damning evidence, combine that with what kind of silliness we're seeing just after D1 and then arrive at what I'm thinking. Note that I'm still holding Vector under suspect - its just that I'm poking at all the other ends.

Because if Vector were town, then LS and DS both outed themselves if going by your logic. That mode of thought on Hapah = suspicious was a theory due to my thinking at the time going along the idea of "Why would Hapah claim an investigate on a townie that falls as scum? She didn't claim Miller. Or...attack Hapah instead. So Hapah must be telling some sort of truth?"


Ergo, I put up the ideas in the above posts. Though maybe its just me, as LS hasn't posted...in a long while. With loads of brevity.


Leafsnail, where are you and your answers to the questions posed to you.

UI: So...now that you've seen my viewpoint, what's with yours? Focusing on me from very skewed bases and assuming that I'm Vector's buddy - you didn't answer this; or saying that I'm forgetting about her - weird for you to assume such, which leads me to ask why?

[Leafsnail]

I posted before I went to bed last night, Tiruin.  I can't see any outstanding questions for me anywhere either.

Given the game size, I expect 2p.  I guess it could be 3p or 2p + 3rd party, though, if the town's really stacked with power roles.

Given the claims and flips we've already had I'm inclined to say yes, the town is really stacked with power roles.

Incidentally, given that you're likely going to be lynched anyway you might as well claim your full role.

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
Deathsword: Vector
Hapah: Deathsword
Vector: Captain Ford, Hapah, Leafsnail, Toaster


Vote Phase ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

Meph: Are bastard roles (naive/paranoid cops etc.) possible?

No, no bastard roles or hidden conditions on anyone's roles in this game.

[Teneb]

I'm going through some real life drama right now, so if I miss anything, please point it out to me. Unvote. This post is done in the order I read the thread

Tiruin:

In a separate paragraph, detail how [your claim] this helps find scum. At all. Either you've just outed yourself to them, or are scum and are trying some kind of strange gambit I cannot understand why.

I might ask the same to you. How did your claim help with finding scum?

TBH, this attitude is also what is making me go along with Vector's pseudo-claim that Hapah did in Deathsword.

It helps due to their response. I already stated how - psychologically, while scum know that the switcher has a chance of targeting town, they'd be adverse, or apathetic to the results unless they're pretty much lax with how they guard being caught out.

You're evading my question again. Answer it. I mean, you show no note of PFP/too busy to post, so I'm assuming you're just being lazy.

You said that your top scumpicks are Vector, followed by me. Everyone else = you're too busy to read. To define, you've tunneled on me D1 and what have you come up with now?

My claim resulted in the knowledge that a player has an ability that can prevent another player from voting a specific player (since I guess it's the main reason it was done to me) and that most roles have powers related to votes.

DS: Can you vote someone that isn't Vector, and request a votecount?

If you don't mind, I'll test it on you: Hapah

>It works.

What can you derive from this, DS?

That someone has an ability that prevents me from voting a certain target, or Vector has an ability that prevents one player from voting her.

Hapah: Why did you not include the information regarding me in your "post-from-beyond"? Why do you consider it to be premature? Could you please show us this post?

Tiruin:

Deathsword I feel torn on.  The scum must know that Vector can't be saved today, so the Deathsword->Vector voteblock comes down to pure WIFOM.  There's also the fact that Vector tried to push blame on him this morning, but claiming a redirected inspection to a scumbuddy is a gambit I can see Vector pulling (it makes sense in a way - it could potentially spin a guilty inspection into towncred).

DS isn't answering my question on why he's voting Vector though. UI seems to be answering for him - but that's just my opinion.

Could you please quote where you asked my why I am voting Vector? I can't seem to find it.

Also, as you know, I can't vote Vector.

Ford:

Leafsnail:

the Deathsword->Vector voteblock comes down to pure WIFOM.

Not entirely. Deathsword's "multivote" ability made his the most important one to remove for Vector to have a chance.

This is a strange, strange sentence. So, did you remove my vote to help Vector?

[Tiruin]

I'm going through some real life drama right now, so if I miss anything, please point it out to me

I was wondering why you were taking long :/ (Or perhaps its just me and being awake for more than 20 hours these days >.>)

Here's to your good health!

Could you please quote where you asked my why I am voting Vector? I can't seem to find it.

Leafsnail, are you capable of knowing if someone acted on you?

Vector, nice fakeclaim. But no.

That one.

Also, as you know, I can't vote Vector.

We only knew...when you said it, then the votecount reflected it.

Also, I guess I'm finding myself to agree with your hypothesis.

Like, we've one power which pertains to votes and how they work/are moved/function, and the other power is a Mafia power.

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Not entirely. Deathsword's "multivote" ability made his the most important one to remove for Vector to have a chance.

This is a strange, strange sentence. So, did you remove my vote to help Vector?

Your vote = 2 votes
Everyone else = 1 vote

Do I really need to explain the rest to you?

[Tiruin]

PFP

Not entirely. Deathsword's "multivote" ability made his the most important one to remove for Vector to have a chance.

This is a strange, strange sentence. So, did you remove my vote to help Vector?

Your vote = 2 votes
Everyone else = 1 vote

Do I really need to explain the rest to you?

Correction: He has the potential of 2 votes. One of them is only visible at the end, and unlike mine seems to have no negation effect.

For every lynch, he gains that person's vote.

...Leading me to believe that votes (per other people, mine's not important) have some sort of special quality ascribed to them. It makes sense in context in which we're 'lynching via "You're not worthy"' theme.

[Captain Ford]

PFP
I know it's only potential votes. Does not change the fact that Deathsword's vote is more of a threat than the others.

[Teneb]

Ford

PFP

Not entirely. Deathsword's "multivote" ability made his the most important one to remove for Vector to have a chance.

This is a strange, strange sentence. So, did you remove my vote to help Vector?

Your vote = 2 votes
Everyone else = 1 vote

Do I really need to explain the rest to you?

Do not dance around the question. Why was it important to remove my vote to help Vector? Are you trying to help Vector? Why are you trying to help Vector?

Tiruin:
I voted her for what I percieved to be a fakeclaim.

Right now, however, I am inclined to believe she is town. Something intresting I noticed was how everyone automatically believed in Hapah's claim to have inspected Vector.

I believe that multiple people will have to be lynched in order to figure this insanity out, including, quite possibly, myself.


PPE: Tiruin: According to my flavour I stole the "Voice" of Dariush, if that is what you mean.

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Do not dance around the question. Why was it important to remove my vote to help Vector? Are you trying to help Vector? Why are you trying to help Vector?

...what the fuck?

The point I brought up there helps YOU. Not Vector. And I don't know why I'm trying to help you. Maybe I was just pointing something out?

[Captain Ford]

DS: Oh, hey, I didn't fully answer your original question. Sorry, I was in a hurry. I am right now, too.

No, I have not done anything to manipulate the votes.

I don't understand why you accused me of trying to help Vector.

[Leafsnail]

I think he misinterpreted your explanation as a claim, Ford.  You should probably clear that up with him.

I get your point, but I feel that even with those two votes for Vector gone she's still doomed.  Blocking DS reveals a scum ability, so there's clearly an attempt at WIFOM going on here.