Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Urist Imiknorris]

Also, Dariush, your answer to Hapah's question is obviously a lie, as those are both rational numbers.

[Captain Ford]

EBWOP:

I'd be voting you, except it's really close to lynch and you just gave up the biggest lylo-breaker ever.

It's mostly that I don't want to put out a pressure vote that I may not have a chance to change before the end of the day.

PPE: And ninjaed by UI

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

-snip-

Speculative, indeed.  Is there some meat there or are you just padding your post?

[...]Odd in that the power has a specific weakness that's contrary to the most similar Meph-made power I can think of (Mind Control Ray from Paranormal), and why claim the power- and weakness- D1?  I could see claiming it the morning after using it, sure, but why now and lose all surprise utility?

> That was me stating my view on the votes of the current time and how most of them don't seem valid enough for the surity of a vote. Hence be speculating on the reasons and then extending. While I could've just said "ugh, not enough time" with an extend following the next line for emphasis, I chose to explain my viewpoint.

Also, padding my post?

> You'd be really surprised when I flip :/ Believe me, comparing meta isn't a good thing to do here - if my power is that specific, I'd be suspicious @ DS for his claim reasons, which I am but its more on the why instead of the 'how'. Also, I guess weakness is because people know how to nullify it: this is countered by human psychology. Like I said, I can state who I'm shifting - it just comes to a term of when. It also helps on reads given that the person's response would aid in showing how they view others and their suspicions.

Talking with you is always an adventure. *sigh*

We share different viewpoints, and I've an opinion too. Sorry if I'm confusing sometimes but I've been trying to cut down on it from the past...what, six or so games I'm in?

I've a long way to go. :/


Anyway

Contradictions like saying it would be harder to use your ability if you had kept it a secret. Like saying scum would 'turn it', but would have to 'check' on the person using it, and later claiming that you didn't say anything like that. Speaking of which...

I can see how you view it as a contradiction now. Thanks. But I still don't view it as one in that manner. I'm telling it out to ensure that knowledge is given in the open of who I'm shifting - this goes both ways in aiding as a pressuring tool to the target and to scum (yeah this relies on the cloudy I know I'm town thing but let me just continue typing atm). The check part is that they'll notice, and then speculate about it via quicktopic. That was all because of me thinking out loud so...do you see what I'm getting at?

What I want to know, is how this situation is possible. You claim it is possible, but I don't see how. That is what I want you to explain.

You mean

Scum may potentially use it to their advantage somehow[...]If I'd have kept it a secret...I'm not pretty sure how that would help my case, its has very specific conditions to match to be able to work. This would also be turned by scum- though they would also have to check on who is the vote switcher.

That was me being speculative and thinking out loud. Any situation is possible in forum Mafia and it would be pretty hard for me to explain how these situations come to happen. I'm just basing it on 'any form of statement has a loophole so you must be specific about it.' - something I based on what I learned in law subjects.

Also

I don't care how you felt about it

So...you don't think pressure via assumed emotion is something to use?


LS

I guess you're suspicious of me and...not suspicious of me?
First

Tiruin is a bad lynch, I don't see scum motivation for claiming what would otherwise be a lylo breaking ability.

Then

Extend.

Really? I expected more from you. Much more, in fact.

There isn't really anything else to say, and you renewing your blatant OMGUS vote isn't going to change that

Toaster's vote on UI sucks too, incidentally.  He's voting UI because he's trying to save his scumbuddy Tiruin, but doesn't that mean he should vote Tiruin? But then he's also challenging Deathsword for thinking Tiruin is scum??

I don't see you poking at Toaster with an FoS or a vote beforehand and the bolded part speaks about my confusion on your viewpoint. You think Toaster is scum...why? And how am I related to him given that idea?

PS: Haven't used the vote-switch yet (probability of extend combined with how I saw the votes being laid down on others). It'll tentatively happen on DS though unless he gets in here and explains himself.

[Solifuge]

Back on a stable connection, and my limbs are no longer feeling like sore, limp noodles. Mafia time!

Damn, the amount of people my hands are itching to FoS is growing at an alarming rate.

Accuse All The Players! :U

Can I ask you a question, Dariush? What the crap is up with you accusing Vector of being scum in nearly every post, yet insisting on voting for Leafsnail based on a paper thin random vote reading? That's extremely scummy behavior, and poor play for scum or town. Sensible people vote where their suspicions and accusations go, not everywhere else. This Refuge in Audacity thing you've been doing since the start, playing up the offensiveness as much as possible, strikes me as an intentional act. And going all spasmodic in your death throes isn't doing your case any favors either.

Tiruin, I don't like your falseclaim either. That said, Town or Scum could have reasons for making a falseclaim, so I'm going to consider it a neutral tell for now.

Going to be doing some more catch-up later tonight.

[Leafsnail]

I guess you're suspicious of me and...not suspicious of me?

No.  I'm not suspicious of you and not suspicious of you.  The second quote is me echoing Toaster's words and pointing out why they make no sense.  This should answer your other question also.

[Toaster]

Leaf:

Toaster's vote on UI sucks too, incidentally.  He's voting UI because he's trying to save his scumbuddy Tiruin, but doesn't that mean he should vote Tiruin?  But then he's also challenging Deathsword for thinking Tiruin is scum??

I challenge where challenges are needed.  If someone has a crap reason for voting someone I suspect, I'm not going to give them a free pass.  That said, the UI vote was pressure- see below.


Urist I:

Toaster:

Really?  You're going to move the lynch lead from Tiruin to Dariush with this kind of case?

Yes, I am. Unlike Dariush, Tiruin is actually doing something constructive. Also, Dariush placed his vote during RVS for the reason of "FUCK YOU ASSHOLE" and did absolutely nothing to follow it up until after I voted him (and not even then). Also also, you'll notice that I voted Tiruin for pressure in the first place.

Fair enough.  I wanted to know if you had any actual substance, and it looks like you do.

Unvote Urist I.


Tiruin:

[...]Odd in that the power has a specific weakness that's contrary to the most similar Meph-made power I can think of (Mind Control Ray from Paranormal), and why claim the power- and weakness- D1?  I could see claiming it the morning after using it, sure, but why now and lose all surprise utility?

> That was me stating my view on the votes of the current time and how most of them don't seem valid enough for the surity of a vote. Hence be speculating on the reasons and then extending. While I could've just said "ugh, not enough time" with an extend following the next line for emphasis, I chose to explain my viewpoint.

Also, padding my post?

Yes, padding.  Information Instead of Analysis I've heard it called.  But if you had a reason for it (which you say above) then I can understand.

> You'd be really surprised when I flip :/ Believe me, comparing meta isn't a good thing to do here - if my power is that specific, I'd be suspicious @ DS for his claim reasons, which I am but its more on the why instead of the 'how'. Also, I guess weakness is because people know how to nullify it: this is countered by human psychology. Like I said, I can state who I'm shifting - it just comes to a term of when. It also helps on reads given that the person's response would aid in showing how they view others and their suspicions.

Oh I will, will I?

Toaster's vote on UI sucks too, incidentally.  He's voting UI because he's trying to save his scumbuddy Tiruin, but doesn't that mean he should vote Tiruin? But then he's also challenging Deathsword for thinking Tiruin is scum??

I don't see you poking at Toaster with an FoS or a vote beforehand and the bolded part speaks about my confusion on your viewpoint. You think Toaster is scum...why? And how am I related to him given that idea?

PS: Haven't used the vote-switch yet (probability of extend combined with how I saw the votes being laid down on others). It'll tentatively happen on DS though unless he gets in here and explains himself.

Leaf never said he thinks I'm scum.  Your comment about yourself says either that you didn't actually read what he said or you saw your name around the word scum and got paranoid.  Defensive about something?

[Hapah]

Dar: What's your angle?

95.5. Or maybe .6.

Cute. Are you a Jester, or a PGO?

Tiruin:
Talking with you is always an adventure. *sigh*

Heh. Go read the last day of BYOC if you need proof of that. I had Tolyk dead to rights and we still couldn't get past Tir's slips.

(Still <3 you though Tir)

[Tiruin]

> You'd be really surprised when I flip :/ Believe me, comparing meta isn't a good thing to do here - if my power is that specific, I'd be suspicious @ DS for his claim reasons, which I am but its more on the why instead of the 'how'. Also, I guess weakness is because people know how to nullify it: this is countered by human psychology. Like I said, I can state who I'm shifting - it just comes to a term of when. It also helps on reads given that the person's response would aid in showing how they view others and their suspicions.

Oh I will, will I?

"Odd in that the power has a specific weakness that's contrary to the most similar Meph-made power I can think of"

Its contrary, all right. Its also there in black and white.

Though I'm just assuming you'll be surprised. I've never really seen you surprised yet.

Toaster's vote on UI sucks too, incidentally.  He's voting UI because he's trying to save his scumbuddy Tiruin, but doesn't that mean he should vote Tiruin? But then he's also challenging Deathsword for thinking Tiruin is scum??

I don't see you poking at Toaster with an FoS or a vote beforehand and the bolded part speaks about my confusion on your viewpoint. You think Toaster is scum...why? And how am I related to him given that idea?

PS: Haven't used the vote-switch yet (probability of extend combined with how I saw the votes being laid down on others). It'll tentatively happen on DS though unless he gets in here and explains himself.

Leaf never said he thinks I'm scum.  Your comment about yourself says either that you didn't actually read what he said or you saw your name around the word scum and got paranoid.  Defensive about something?

Imagine a person with lacking sleep for nearly a week. That's how I understand things when that situation applies.

Now how I thought it:

He's voting UI because he's trying to save his scumbuddy Tiruin, but doesn't that mean he should vote Tiruin?

LS was talking about you, voting UI, implying you trying to save me for some reason - me guessing its due to the votes piled up on me or to...somewhat dissuade UI with something. I'm not sure. It does go along the lines of 'suck', because this explanation is the one I went with - it doesn't make sense for it to be related to [Toaster]. Hence me posting that with a load of questions to clarify.

And no, not defensive. I believe you're taking the many questions to sound as being defensive? If so, I'm not.

I guess you're suspicious of me and...not suspicious of me?

No.  I'm not suspicious of you and not suspicious of you.  The second quote is me echoing Toaster's words and pointing out why they make no sense.  This should answer your other question also.

Thanks for clarifying.

Solifuge

Tiruin, I don't like your falseclaim either. That said, Town or Scum could have reasons for making a falseclaim, so I'm going to consider it a neutral tell for now.

Explain please? Why do you assume falseclaim in its entirety here?

PFP

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tiruin:
Talking with you is always an adventure. *sigh*

Heh. Go read the last day of BYOC if you need proof of that. I had Tolyk dead to rights and we still couldn't get past Tir's slips.

(Still <3 you though Tir)

Bah :I Don't read it Ford! For my sake!

...And Thanks Hapah :/ That was...really annoying to get confused over my own PM. And the resulting powers that followed. I'm glad you saw the end and hit TolyK though...Won't blame Toaster for hitting me then as he had a reasonable case.

And then UI killed us all...

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
Dariush: Leafsnail, Solifuge, Urist Imiknorris, Vector
Deathsword: Hapah, Tiruin
Leafsnail: Dariush
Tiruin: Deathsword


Vote Phase ends ~5pm Pacific Today (In about 7.5 hours). There will be no more extensions this Vote Phase.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:  I meant defensive as in you denied something you weren't really accused of.

[Teneb]

I am sorry it took this long to post. I've been busy.

Tiruin:

I guess there is no point in delaying this. Before that I do indeed believe that the vote-shuffling (as in: changing your vote nullifies the power) part of Tiruin's power is a fakeclaim.

Now for my own claim. I am a double-voter of sorts. Every time someone is lynched, I gain their vote. These votes stack and last until I use them. At any point I can PM Meph and spends the votes I have to add "weight" to my vote. For example: If I have 3 collected votes, I can choose to spend 2 of them to make my vote count as three (my original vote + 2 collected votes). The unspent vote can be used at a later date.

Thus the "weakness" of Tiruin's power is concerning because if it is false, Tiruin could then control a lot of votes. And I do not believe a power would have such a specific and odd weakness.

Why'd you claim?

So the danger a scum vote-changer could cause is fully understood by the town.

Thus the "weakness" of Tiruin's power is concerning because if it is false, Tiruin could then control a lot of votes. And I do not believe a power would have such a specific and odd weakness.

I don't get the first sentence. Explain how. Secondly, explain how and where you're getting such logic in the second and how that relates with your stance(or case, its hard to call it a case with all the vagueness) on me.

I mean, its nice to hear that you don't believe such. Why you don't is what I'm concerned about, and how you're getting at that point of thinking.

To shorten: You haven't explained why its a fakeclaim as well as explaining why.

I believe your "weakness" to be false, as it is too specific and doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would it matter to an ability such as yours if someone changed their vote if you are already redirecting it?

Dariush:

DS, so now that you've claimed, are you going to do, like, anything else? For example, uhIdunno, answer questions?

I am answering questions. I haven't seen one question yet I haven't answered (if the person asking the question was satisfied or not with my answer is irrellevant to your "question"). Meanwhile, what have you been doing? You've been defending your OMGUS rage-vote and being snarky.

Toaster:

Deathsword:  If you think Tiruin is lying about her claim, why do you think she claimed at all?  Who else do you suspect besides Tiruin?

I believe Tiruin is lying about part of her claim. As to why she claimed in the first place, some players prefer to claim certain roles (such as miller) no matter their alignment.

Ford: As you have pointed out yourself, there are a number of incosistencies and oddities with Tiruin's claim. A scum vote-switcher can be dangerous on lylo (or even mylo), especially when there are roles such as mine present.

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Tiruin:

I can see how you view it as a contradiction now. Thanks. But I still don't view it as one in that manner. I'm telling it out to ensure that knowledge is given in the open of who I'm shifting - this goes both ways in aiding as a pressuring tool to the target and to scum (yeah this relies on the cloudy I know I'm town thing but let me just continue typing atm). The check part is that they'll notice, and then speculate about it via quicktopic. That was all because of me thinking out loud so...do you see what I'm getting at?

Yes, actually, I do. Thank you for bearing with me, I now understand what you've been trying to tell me.

I can now see that your answers are consistent with each other, not contradictory. You were speculating that scum would try to identify you and use your actions against you. You never gave me explanation I was looking for because you never had one.

You also were not commenting on the ease of using your ability, but rather on how not revealing it would hurt you in the long run.

I don't care how you felt about it

So...you don't think pressure via assumed emotion is something to use?

Obviously not. I did use that phrasing when I first addressed you, didn't I? It looked like you were nitpicking at my word choice instead of answering the question, so I said that in an attempt to communicate what I actually wanted in the clearest way possible.

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
Dariush: Leafsnail, Solifuge, Urist Imiknorris, Vector
Deathsword: Hapah, Tiruin
Leafsnail: Dariush
Tiruin: Deathsword


  The Counting Stones have been placed, and their message is clear. The Ring does not feel that Dariush is fit to be Chief.

  "This is ridiculous!" splutters an outraged Dariush. "It should be quite clear to all of you that I am the obvious choice to become our next Chief. And yet you vote against me? This is preposterous"!
 
  "And yet," says Solifuge "You have done nothing to convince us of your 'Obvious' qualifications."
 
  "What? Seriously? You all know me. You've known me your whole lives! Why should I have to convince any of you?"
 
  "Because," retorts Urist Imiknorris, "that is why we are here. To debate with one another and determine who is the most suitable Elder to become the next Chief."

  "I. You. Gaaahhh!!!" He glowers at all of you. "Well. Fine. Like the stalwart tardigrade I shall endure. I may not be the next Chief, but I will hold to our Traditions and use my status as Elder to keep our people safe during these trying times."

  A cold wind blows in as he brushes aside the leather door and heads out of the Spirit hut.

  The rest of you gather up your counting stones and sit back down.

  Now it is the time of the Spirit Walk, where you breath in scents of the Sacred Medicines, drink the Draught of Wisdom, and set your minds free. In the Spirit Realm you will ponder the course of events in peace. You will commune with your animal spirits, and you will make use of their magic.

  You close your eyes...and open your minds.



The Spirit Walk has begun. Send in your actions!

[Mephansteras]

The Spirit Walk is over. You return to your bodies and look around.

Solifuge lies unconscious on his mat. Those closest to him lean over and inspect him. He is fine, it seems, if unconscious. Not unheard of. The Spirit Walk contains many dangers, and it seems that he succumbed to one of them. A sign of weakness. You call for the attendants to come and take him from the Spirit Moot. If he cannot weather the dangers of a Spirit Walk, he is certainly not worthy to be Chief.

As they gently carry him outside, a whisper from the spirit realms appears in your mind.

"The Quetzal, Resplendent and Sacred. Someone pays for this crime against so noble a bird."

Then the whisper fades, and the solid world take shape again.

Eight of you left. Only one can be Chief.

Let the discussion resume.





The Vote Phase has started. It will go until ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.


Since I received several questions about the lack of obvious role-flips, I feel that I should clarify a few things.

First, anyone who is Traditional or Loyal is Town for this game. By default, anyone taken out during the Spirit Walk will also be town. I will make it known that they were working against you if they aren't.

Also, the OP holds the alignment and Role of every player removed during the game.

[Hapah]

PFP

Vector, you inspected as one of the Strangers. What do you have to say?

Meph: I assume whoever doesn't have a vote (based on Sol's flip) will still show as actually voting in the votecount?