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[Tiruin]

Also, there are no hammers but total-vote stuff. One thing I'm clarifying with Meph because of total word shenanigans.

Ayup. It will be in work as long as none of the things I've mentioned happen, and he doesn't officially end the day. So...when the day passes its timeline, or everyone votes, I can still work with it as far as I can derive from his PM.

I hate timezones :/

[Vector]

. . . Kinda dead in here, innit?

[Hapah]

PFP

Yeah, I'd hoped to get a post in during lunch today, but work is being a real bear. I'll have something for everyone tonight though.

[Tiruin]

Its...Tuesday here everyone. Meph's time is -8 GMT; mine is +8 GMT. By 5am Wednesday this thing'll finish and I'm pretty unsure about the activity rate if this continues :/ (Exams and all)

Come on...Post!

[Vector]

I don't really know what to say.  I'm personally waiting on Hapah and Dariush so there's not much I can do, and it feels like Toaster and Solifuge have just kind of disappeared.

[Leafsnail]

I wondered if that would cause confusion.

FoS = Full of S***

And being FoS doesn't imply that you're suspicious of him?  You're just making a personal insult or what?

[I asked a question] Because at a glance it would look like rolefishing.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE STRATEGY DO NOT USE IT

Well, a good beginning in any scumhunt would be to look for scumtells. Among the most common ones I list the following: 1) demanding answers for RVS questions long after said answer stopped being of any use to anyone; 2) demanding answers to other people's question, especially RVS ones; 3) demanding reads too early in the game for anyone except scum to be able to form them; 4) asking questions in an intentionally ambiguous way; 5) asking extremely general RVS questions, the answer to which is pretty singular and may not deviate from a given standard too much and so on. Your today's crashcourse in hunting scum was sponsored by Captain Obvious and your lecturer was The Glorious Master of Everything. Thank you for your attention.

You are a mafia member.

[Hapah]

Yeah, sorry about that.  The freaking class on Saturday took it out of me.

I've got lots of catching up to do! Reading/writing post now.

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
Dariush: Leafsnail, Vector
Deathsword: Tiruin
Hapah: Solifuge
Leafsnail: Dariush
Tiruin: Captain Ford, Deathsword, Urist Imiknorris
Vector: Hapah


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

[Leafsnail]

Tiruin is a bad lynch, I don't see scum motivation for claiming what would otherwise be a lylo breaking ability.

[Hapah]

Vector:

Spoiler: Posts (click to show/hide)

Hapah, I decided I wanted to ask Tiruin a question, and then I picked the question.  I did not pick the question and then the player.  Yes, the question might have functioned better used on someone else.  No, I do not really care.  It did the job and I do not need to waste time dicking around optimizations above a certain threshold.

I played the ass-end of one game with Tiruin.  Your question assumes

a. I consider Tiruin more experienced than most (I don't, particularly; maybe I should)
b. I know more about Tiruin than any other player in the game (it's a three-way tie between Urist Imiknorris, Tiruin, and Deathsword for those I know least)

I have played with everyone in this game before.  I have known most of these people for almost three years.  Therefore your points are very silly.

I'll get to everything else later.  I'm feeling unusually tired.


Ah, wait.

Hey, Dariush!  Scumbucket!  Did I scare you off?  You seem unusually quiet. . .

*sigh*, I've got to clarify because the meds made that not make as much sense as I thought it would.

1. Even if your points applied--there was someone less experienced and who I knew less than Tiruin--I reason based on thresholds, not on absolute best outcomes.  Even so, that question might not be *the very absolute best question to ask Tiruin right now,* and might instead be optimized for a different class of player, but it was good enough.  That "someone else" didn't refer to a player in this game, but rather "people who share a certain class of characteristics."

2. Your points did not even apply, which makes me think you are full of hot air and just making noise.

For #1, good to know!

For #2, let me quote myself:

-snip-
This is D1 RVS: you have to latch onto any little things you see and run with it, because that's all you can do. If you think you can get info from asking a question, do it!

I saw something that I thought was inconsistent, and I ran with it. I honestly thought you had played with Tir before (based on the fact that I think Tir played with Sol, and you and Sol are both old guard, I think) so I wondered why you had asked a question like that to someone you'd played with before. Apparently I was wrong!

Deathsword

Tiruin: While I can understand why you would claim your ability, I fail to see why you would explain to other players (and thus, scum) how to counter your ability. It looks to me like a fakeclaim to give people a false sense of security by switching their votes around by the end of the day.

Why would people follow that path of direction anyway if they were so worried about their votes?

Because I think you are lying about the "weakness" of your power. I think you are lying about your switch being nullified if your target changes votes.

Why on earth would you claim the ability and fakeclaim a weakness as scum? Or as town, for that matter. I could see not claiming it at all (esp. as scum), and I could see full claiming it. I could even see not claiming the weakness to avoid the day-end shuffle, though I don't really think that's going to be an issue. But why add a fake weakness?

Dar: What's your angle?

PPE: Leaf: Yeah, pretty much. Plus, if you claimed it as scum, you have to be able to justify every extra vote placed, AND why you removed the victim's vote in particular. It'd be a lot of work.

[Toaster]

I need to sit down and reread, but I can say that Leaf's right- Tiruin's claim was odd, but it's hardly lynchworthy.

[Teneb]

I guess there is no point in delaying this. Before that I do indeed believe that the vote-shuffling (as in: changing your vote nullifies the power) part of Tiruin's power is a fakeclaim.

Now for my own claim. I am a double-voter of sorts. Every time someone is lynched, I gain their vote. These votes stack and last until I use them. At any point I can PM Meph and spends the votes I have to add "weight" to my vote. For example: If I have 3 collected votes, I can choose to spend 2 of them to make my vote count as three (my original vote + 2 collected votes). The unspent vote can be used at a later date.

Thus the "weakness" of Tiruin's power is concerning because if it is false, Tiruin could then control a lot of votes. And I do not believe a power would have such a specific and odd weakness.

[Captain Ford]

Leafsnail:

And being FoS doesn't imply that you're suspicious of him?  You're just making a personal insult or what?

Not in this case, no. UI was right in his essential point, I only disagreed with him about his wording.

I think I picked up this habit from my mother. She has occasionally whispered to me "he's full of shit" when her boyfriend is wrong about something but she doesn't feel it's worth arguing about.


Tiruin: Okay, so your ability does work the way I thought it did. Do you really still not understand how you have made it harder to use by revealing how it works?

Why are you so concerned about a vote-shifter?

I'm "concerned" because of the numerous confused statements and contradictions you made when I first questioned you about your ability. I can accept that you were confused about how it functioned, but instead of explaining your confused statements, you've been acting like you never made them.

For the record, I don't find your ability implausible. But you said some strange things and each time I ask for an explanation, you have failed to give me an answer. Only after asking 3 times did I finally get clarification on how your ability worked.

> Where did I say I was worried?

...I quoted the exact place where you said it. I even told you that I was doing that when I did it. Here it is again (edited for clarity):

You previously worried about being found out by scum:

This would also be turned by scum- though they would also have to check on who is the vote switcher.

You seem to be saying that if you kept your ability a secret, then scum would use your manipulative actions as evidence against you -- but how would they know you had it if you kept it a secret?

I also don't have the faintest idea why you started talking about scum forcing you to use your ability. I never said anything like that.


PPE: Leafsnail, Hapah, Toaster

For the record, I'm not voting him on the basis of his claim. I'm voting him because of the contradictions in the things he's said that he still hasn't explained. He still hasn't answered all the questions I asked when I originally voted him, and it wasn't until I asked for the third time that he finally answered the first half of them. It feels like he's being deliberately evasive, and I can't see a good reason for it.

Tiruin is a bad lynch, I don't see scum motivation for claiming what would otherwise be a lylo breaking ability.

Isn't it possible he claimed it because he was worried about a rolecop finding out about it?

Plus, if you claimed it as scum, you have to be able to justify every extra vote placed, AND why you removed the victim's vote in particular. It'd be a lot of work.

He could always say, "it wasn't me!" Even if he didn't, I would think that justifying the victim of his vote-switch would be easy. He'd just pick the one he's lynching, or the person least likely to nullify his attempt. And why would it be more work as scum?


PPE: Deathsword

Ahh...wow. O_O That's powerful.

[Hapah]

Plus, if you claimed it as scum, you have to be able to justify every extra vote placed, AND why you removed the victim's vote in particular. It'd be a lot of work.

He could always say, "it wasn't me!" Even if he didn't, I would think that justifying the victim of his vote-switch would be easy. He'd just pick the one he's lynching, or the person least likely to nullify his attempt. And why would it be more work as scum?

I guess the victim wouldn't be too bad, but you've still got to build a case as to why you think Person X doesn't deserve a vote in addition to why Person Y needs to get lynched. It's definitely non-trivial.

[Captain Ford]

I guess the victim wouldn't be too bad, but you've still got to build a case as to why you think Person X doesn't deserve a vote in addition to why Person Y needs to get lynched. It's definitely non-trivial.

That's true.

But most likely Tiruin's going to simply not use his ability.