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[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

FoS = Full of S***

I thought you were talking about how we name people in blue? That's short for Finger of Suspicion...

Also, wow. That's quite a shift in attitude...

How so? He made it pretty clear that he thought I was contradicting myself earlier.

That he's using a four letter expletive which seems a bit too far to be pointing out others' attitude.

Though, you vote for that reason?

[Dariush]

Because at a glance it would look like rolefishing.

...How would a question about the way of winning be possibly qualified as rolefishing? And in any case how does this relate to the alignment of the 'jumper'?

[Teneb]

Tiruin: While I can understand why you would claim your ability, I fail to see why you would explain to other players (and thus, scum) how to counter your ability. It looks to me like a fakeclaim to give people a false sense of security by switching their votes around by the end of the day.

Deathsword:  What's the scummiest thing you've seen said so far?

As seen above, I don't really buy Tiruin's claim.

Extend. More time is needed.

NOTE: Do not expect big posts from me this week, as it'll be a busy one.

[Tiruin]

I detect an oblivious bandwagon.

Tiruin: While I can understand why you would claim your ability, I fail to see why you would explain to other players (and thus, scum) how to counter your ability. It looks to me like a fakeclaim to give people a false sense of security by switching their votes around by the end of the day.

How does this make any sense? It's pretty darn obvious that I already stated it all. What is a vote-switcher to you, so important?

Why would people follow that path of direction anyway if they were so worried about their votes?

[Captain Ford]

Vector:

You're picking for your team.  I'm not exactly sure how this isn't specific, unless you're unsure of your alignment.  Is that the case?

Do you think it's necessary to be deceptive to avoid lynching, regardless of alignment?

1. I tend to assume that hypothetical questions are, well, hypothetical. An alignment is often specified with questions like these (such as in yours), so when it was omitted I assumed he wanted a more general answer.

To answer the question, both stated and implied: No, I'm town.

2. In real life, honesty often is the best policy. Not so in mafia. As I've learned from (painful) experience on this board, sometimes telling everyone what's going on in your head is in fact the very opposite of helpful. So yes, the ability to control and censor yourself is crucial regardless of alignment.

Also,

I have played with everyone in this game before.  I have known most of these people for almost three years.  Therefore your points are very silly..

I'm 100% positive I've never played with you before. (We both played in Mafia and Masons and Hackers, I suppose, but not at the same time)


Tiruin:

Spoiler: Metaphor (click to show/hide)

> I don't get that metaphor about knives [or, really. I don't get that metaphor at all. How does seeing someone bleed help?]

Well, the point is to see whether or not you "bleed like scum". Ideally, I would cut deep into you and find your blackened, shriveled heart -- but that would probably be fatal to a townie.

Remember this:

Tiruin: So wait, your ability lets you change a person's vote, but if they change their vote, your ability fails? What if they change their vote, but change it back again before the day ends? Is this going to result in everybody popping in close to the end of the day to shift their votes back and forth just to make sure you don't twist their vote?

I didn't ask those questions just for shits n' giggles. If you'd actually answered those questions, you'd understand why I'm saying your ability was weakened by revealing it.

I know you understand that, and I suspect you're deliberately misleading us in order to trip people up. Since people can nullify your ability by changing their vote to someone else and back near day end. But anyone who does so ends up looking paranoid, which you or others can then press them on. I suspect this is why you revealed your ability in the first place.

So would you kindly quit dodging my questions and answer them?

[Tiruin]

How am I even dodging your questions?

Look. It's all there in black and white. My action will only be activated by PM. Nobody else knows when I do it, or when it happens. If PM goes before a vote, and the vote shifts after the PM is sent, vote shift = nullified. That's it. I also stated that I'd be calling out who I'd shift, didn't I?

Goodness. I'm really wondering why you and DS are making such a fuss about the whole matter going on with blowing up the case into misleading and other ideas.

But anyone who does so ends up looking paranoid, which you or others can then press them on.

Inferred possibility. But no. It depends on how the person words their posts, and what had happened beforehand.

So wait, your ability lets you change a person's vote, but if they change their vote, your ability fails? What if they change their vote, but change it back again before the day ends? Is this going to result in everybody popping in close to the end of the day to shift their votes back and forth just to make sure you don't twist their vote?

> If Vote change AFTER I use ability = Ability nullified. I thought that was pretty obvious in how I worded it.
> It will still be nullified if they change their vote after I use that ability even if they move it back to the original target.
> I have no idea. If the people want to panic and go on with shifting their votes just for...um. (I mean, the only scenario where this would happen is when undecided vote comes into play and a draw on people would be apparent) It all depends on how people see it.

Why would I twist votes anyway? What would lead to that case?

PFP.

And you missed this:

Why are you so concerned about a vote-shifter?

[Vector]

I have played with everyone in this game before.  I have known most of these people for almost three years.  Therefore your points are very silly..

I'm 100% positive I've never played with you before. (We both played in Mafia and Masons and Hackers, I suppose, but not at the same time)

Thank you, Captain Pedant.

No. I gave several reasons for each one of my picks. I would have commented on their scumhunting ability, but the only one of them I can vouch for on that is Vector, who nailed NQT in Mafia and Masons and Hackers.

If it's good enough for you, then it's good enough for me.

1. I tend to assume that hypothetical questions are, well, hypothetical. An alignment is often specified with questions like these (such as in yours), so when it was omitted I assumed he wanted a more general answer.

To answer the question, both stated and implied: No, I'm town.

2. In real life, honesty often is the best policy. Not so in mafia. As I've learned from (painful) experience on this board, sometimes telling everyone what's going on in your head is in fact the very opposite of helpful. So yes, the ability to control and censor yourself is crucial regardless of alignment.

Fair.  Unvote.


Hapah: I don't like your lurky-lurk.  It is the weekend, but if you're not going to show up, don't promise to show up.

Hey, Dariush!  Scumfucker!  Can we get some opinions from the professional hypocrite as to reads, and, oh, say... answers to Leafsnail's questions, for example?  And perhaps some excuses for your most flaky and atypical disappearance?

[Vector]

* By which I of course mean activelurking.  Because god knows your mouth may be here, but your brain seems to have gone AWOL.

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
Captain Ford: Tiruin
Dariush: Leafsnail, Vector
Hapah: Solifuge
Leafsnail: Dariush
Tiruin: Captain Ford, Deathsword, Urist Imiknorris
Vector: Hapah



Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday

[Teneb]

Tiruin: While I can understand why you would claim your ability, I fail to see why you would explain to other players (and thus, scum) how to counter your ability. It looks to me like a fakeclaim to give people a false sense of security by switching their votes around by the end of the day.

How does this make any sense? It's pretty darn obvious that I already stated it all. What is a vote-switcher to you, so important?

Why would people follow that path of direction anyway if they were so worried about their votes?

Because I think you are lying about the "weakness" of your power. I think you are lying about your switch being nullified if your target changes votes.


MOD: Can a vote-switcher use their power to hammer?

[Dariush]

Hey, Dariush!  Scumfucker!  Can we get some opinions from the professional hypocrite as to reads, and, oh, say... answers to Leafsnail's questions, for example?  And perhaps some excuses for your most flaky and atypical disappearance?

Wait, so was the latter part of your post addressed to someone who fucks scum? Does that mean your husband/boyfriend? Ehhehe, am I not just hilarious today.

Yeah, I missed LS's post, though I wasn't aware you became his slave out of nowhere.

Why would I go about finding scum? Shouldn't I go towards finding scum? I'm not scum like you, after all, and thus am actually interested in finding them.

This is a major question dodge.  It's fair enough if you don't recognize the sentence construction I used ("How would you go about doing x" means "By what method would you achieve x"), but I think you understood the general thrust of the question ("How are you intending to find scum") and avoided it.

Well, a good beginning in any scumhunt would be to look for scumtells. Among the most common ones I list the following: 1) demanding answers for RVS questions long after said answer stopped being of any use to anyone; 2) demanding answers to other people's question, especially RVS ones; 3) demanding reads too early in the game for anyone except scum to be able to form them; 4) asking questions in an intentionally ambiguous way; 5) asking extremely general RVS questions, the answer to which is pretty singular and may not deviate from a given standard too much and so on. Your today's crashcourse in hunting scum was sponsored by Captain Obvious and your lecturer was The Glorious Master of Everything. Thank you for your attention.

DS, explain how would fakeclaiming Tiruin's ability (as opposed to claiming it) help scum in any way whatsoever.

PPE: DS. Your post asks more questions than it answers. For starters, if he lied about the weakness and he told the truth about the vote being displayed on the final votecount, it would be really obvious he lied. If he lied about the latter too, there is absolutely no reason for scum-Tiruin to claim the power at all. Thus, my question remains.

[Mephansteras]

MOD: Can a vote-switcher use their power to hammer?

A Hammer ends the day, so, that would be a different power from a vote-switch. Which is not to say that someone couldn't have both powers, but they are distinct.

[Vector]

Hey, Dariush!  Scumfucker!  Can we get some opinions from the professional hypocrite as to reads, and, oh, say... answers to Leafsnail's questions, for example?  And perhaps some excuses for your most flaky and atypical disappearance?

Wait, so was the latter part of your post addressed to someone who fucks scum? Does that mean your husband/boyfriend? Ehhehe, am I not just hilarious today.

Funny, wrong, and also scum.

Yeah, I missed LS's post, though I wasn't aware you became his slave out of nowhere.

I've been trying to get you to show long before LS got into the mix.  Trying to get you to stop evading is not the same thing as being someone else's slave.

Well, a good beginning in any scumhunt would be to look for scumtells. Among the most common ones I list the following: 1) demanding answers for RVS questions long after said answer stopped being of any use to anyone; 2) demanding answers to other people's question, especially RVS ones; 3) demanding reads too early in the game for anyone except scum to be able to form them; 4) asking questions in an intentionally ambiguous way; 5) asking extremely general RVS questions, the answer to which is pretty singular and may not deviate from a given standard too much and so on. Your today's crashcourse in hunting scum was sponsored by Captain Obvious and your lecturer was The Glorious Master of Everything. Thank you for your attention.

Ooh, is that directed at me?  Then come at me, and stop being so fucking wiggly and passive about it.

1&2. That was an evasion accusation I wanted addressed, not an RVS question.

3. You would have some general reads if you were bothering to be active and ask questions.  Leaving RVS means we've entered standard play, which means it's about time to have some reads.  You can't have it both ways, dear--both RVS-and-not-RVS.  Besides, if it's not RVS then why did you ask me that question about which gametypes I prefer?  Epitome of useless, my dear Watson.

And if you're accusing me of being scum with an argument in tow, then that implies you've got some kind of read and you're grandstanding on top of a heap of your own bullshit.  Guess Wuba's not the only one with a shit machine in his basement.

4&5. Dariush, I'm honestly surprised that you don't seem to know what reaction-testing is and how you go about it.  You've been playing this game for too long to be hung up on bull like this, and you seem to be building up a long list of contradictory, hypocritical, and reiterated points for the sake of looking active.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: While I can understand why you would claim your ability, I fail to see why you would explain to other players (and thus, scum) how to counter your ability. It looks to me like a fakeclaim to give people a false sense of security by switching their votes around by the end of the day.

How does this make any sense? It's pretty darn obvious that I already stated it all. What is a vote-switcher to you, so important?

Why would people follow that path of direction anyway if they were so worried about their votes?

Because I think you are lying about the "weakness" of your power. I think you are lying about your switch being nullified if your target changes votes.


MOD: Can a vote-switcher use their power to hammer?

Oh dear. Lies. Huh, you seem to be evading my question on

What is a vote-switcher to you, so important?

Why would people follow that path of direction anyway if they were so worried about their votes?

Also. Please explain how in the world I'd mention it in the first place, if there was any sort of fallibility: maybe a gambit - an early ploy, perhaps, if that's what I guess you're thinking. But does it make sense to you for something of that nature to be played this early? Like, even before the first day ends? Or perhaps an atrocious lie because of a vote switch?

In all seriousness, I believe you're weakly addressing the case here, DS. Someone who cared about the idea wouldn't just give his opinion on lies.

He would ask pertinent questions.

Because I think you are lying about the "weakness" of your power. I think you are lying about your switch being nullified if your target changes votes.

All I see are declarative remarks. I need an explanation.

Also, there are no hammers but total-vote stuff. One thing I'm clarifying with Meph because of total word shenanigans.

Why the mention of a hammer game DS?

Days will go for 72 hours (Ignoring weekends) or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).

...However I don't see anything regarding hammers here or on Supernatural Mafia. To be sure. Mod: Are there hammers? Does this game run on hammers? Is it possible for player powers to be like a hammer?

[Mephansteras]

...However I don't see anything regarding hammers here or on Supernatural Mafia. To be sure. Mod: Are there hammers? Does this game run on hammers? Is it possible for player powers to be like a hammer?

It is possible that there is a Hammer power in the game, but otherwise there is no Hammer mechanism.