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[Captain Ford]

PFP

All of them. But if I can't have them all, then just the strongest ones.

Sounds kind of nervous, don't you think?

I don't really, no. I don't think you realize how greedy I can be.

Indeed. . . these are all fair assessments, but there is something interesting here.  Why are so many of the talents you've outlined for your team-members deceptive, Captain Ford?

Three reasons:
1. Deathsword didn't specify which team I was picking for.
2. The ability to not get lynched is valuable no matter what team you're on.
3. If they're on my team, then they're not on any other team.

Captain Ford: Vector's question had an initial condition. Otherwise, they were the same question.

So they were different ... but also the same. Noted.

[Tiruin]

Indeed. . . these are all fair assessments, but there is something interesting here.  Why are so many of the talents you've outlined for your team-members deceptive, Captain Ford?

Three reasons:
1. Deathsword didn't specify which team I was picking for.
2. The ability to not get lynched is valuable no matter what team you're on.
3. If they're on my team, then they're not on any other team.

So deception is...what now? What are you getting at Ford? I can't get the third one and how it relates to Vector's question.

[Hapah]

PFP

Hapah, I don't know you, but I don't like the passivity of your questions and answers, and how courteously you're phrasing things.

I didn't put "The nice guy" as my character text for nothing, you know!

I asked UI about his name abbreviation because I recalled someone getting grumpy recently about how their name was abbreviated, but I can't remember the name or who. I cut down most people's names, though (Dariush to Dar, Bookthras to Book, Tiruin to Tir, zombie urist to ZU, etc.)

And of course I'd let Vector and Deathsword get the answers to their questions before they answer mine; since I was asking what they hoped to get from their questions. No point in them giving the test if they hand out the key before it's due, you know? I'm still interested in their answers, though, I just haven't gotten to chew on them yet.

If you were you in my shoes and had no other experience playing with you, do you think it's fair to suspect this as a D1 Scumtell?

Whether or not it's fair doesn't matter one bit, does it? This is D1 RVS: you have to latch onto any little things you see and run with it, because that's all you can do. If you think you can get info from asking a question, do it!

[Captain Ford]

PFP

Solifuge: Thanks for the very thorough response. Tell me, do you think being nasty gets better results than being nice?

3. If they're on my team, then they're not on any other team.

So deception is...what now? What are you getting at Ford? I can't get the third one and how it relates to Vector's question.

Really? I think it's pretty straightforward. Their deceptiveness is exactly why I don't want them on anyone else's team.

[Solifuge]

I'm unfamiliar with PFP... Posted For Proof?

If you were you in my shoes and had no other experience playing with you, do you think it's fair to suspect this as a D1 Scumtell?

Whether or not it's fair doesn't matter one bit, does it? This is D1 RVS: you have to latch onto any little things you see and run with it, because that's all you can do. If you think you can get info from asking a question, do it!

So you think it's a little thing, then? Also, odd that you encourage me to ask questions, right after you dodge some of mine (graciously though, I'll give you that). I'm all for more kindness in Mafia, but not if it interferes with gameplay.

Speaking of which...

Solifuge: Thanks for the very thorough response. Tell me, do you think being nasty gets better results than being nice?

Depends on the player, and the results you're looking for. Being nasty can put pressure on people, and provoke them to betray signs of defensiveness or self-preservation, etc. I generally try to be nice when I can though, because I have more fun when there's a positive environment.

Cheerful with a thinly-veiled threat of manslaughter. That's how I like my Mafia.

[Hapah]

PFP = Posting from Phone or (as in my case) Posting from Profession. I'll be at work for a couple hours yet.

[webadict]

Relevant.

Ah well, Webadict. You will always be a King in my heart.

...more specifically, the reigning monarch in the sovereign territory of my Aorta.

Works for me.

I would attempt to win the title back, but it appears that the current King doesn't wish to run KotM, so I'm afraid I can't win it back, as I would host it.

And now, exit stage... any direction.

[Captain Ford]

Solifuge: Ah, a man after my own heart. I am also a firm believer in the Teddy Roosevelt school of diplomacy. Unvote.

Tiruin: So wait, your ability lets you change a person's vote, but if they change their vote, your ability fails? What if they change their vote, but change it back again before the day ends? Is this going to result in everybody popping in close to the end of the day to shift their votes back and forth just to make sure you don't twist their vote?

Also, how would scum figure out you were the one screwing with votes? Wouldn't you try to avoid that?


Also, a heads up: I'm having company over tonight for a D&D game, and I'll also have company over on Sunday. I should be available tomorrow and Monday after work.

[Leafsnail]

I could probably run KotM myself actually, since webadict deserves a shot at it.  I have a bunch of flavour planned out for it anyway.

Vector: I see. Unvote.

Hapah: Vector's repetition was more interesting than the meh RVS question itself. And yeah, UI is okay.

Captain Ford: Vector's question had an initial condition. Otherwise, they were the same question.

Solifuge: webadict is no longer the King of the Mafia. Leafsnail is.

Tiruin: Doesn't your definition of indistinct basically cover any BYOR ever?

Dariush: How do you plan to win this game?

What are you trying to achieve with these questions?

So they were different ... but also the same. Noted.

What does the note suggest about UI's alignment?

[Hapah]

Woooo, it's the weekend!

Sol: It's a little thing in this case because it's a meta thing; I'd say I always try to be cheery. But if it's your first game with me you'd have no way to know that besides reading through previous games (which is tedious as all hell, I know), or ask folks if it's par for the course. I will agree that sometimes you just have to be a dick to nail your target to the wall, but I can usually ask the hard questions and be nice enough about it.

Tir:

Hapah: Why are you concerned about UI voting Vector during the RVS - what does that entail? Also, in a hypothetical situation where you'd have a choice between tracking or watching a player at night, what would you choose and why?

It's just the fact that he didn't press either on the question itself (which I viewed as weak), but he voted over Vector asking a similar question to one that had been asked already. It just seemed a little odd to me. Also, I'd pick the Track: seems like you'd be more likely to get information.

Leaf:

I voted Dariush because he hadn't posted yet and a naked vote can give a more revealing answer than a generic question.

Can you elaborate on this?

Vector:

Tiruin seems to have cool nerves, as I learned from last game--so I needed another strategy than vote-and-harass, something more subtle.  There's a couple reasons for the use of this particular question, though.

Doing slightly scummy things towards the very beginning of the game has dividends in terms of drawing attention and reads, and speeds up the scumhunting process considerably; it invites other people to pay attention to you, and provokes strong, often unguarded reactions.  Hence asking a question someone had already asked.  To the best of my knowledge, a couple of experienced people doing this (so that it's controlled, and doesn't just lead to a billion mislynches) is the best way to get a strong D1.

But also, this particular question is a good litmus test for a number of things.  The number of scumbuddies a person lists can be very telling; in games of standard sizes (9, 11, 13, etc.) it's an indicator for amount of experience, so that you can sometimes figure out just how familiar the person is with Mafia; in other games it can reveal the number of people on the scumteam.  And hell, I know from experience that it can make inexperienced people flip out, so I might get lucky despite previously gathered data.

That, and it's an early way to get reactions on people... because the only person you'd have a real read on this point would be a scumbuddy, so sometimes you can tell that they talk about that person a little bit differently.

-snip-

Bolded for emphasis. Considering that you've played with Tir before, why ask Tir this particular question? It seems you would have gotten more information about experience, and/or would have been more likely to get a scumslip, if you asked it to someone either less experienced or who you knew nothing about?

Deathsword:

Deathsword, Vector: I believe each of your questions have been answered. Can you answer mine, now?

Because I've been so far in a single game with Ford, and knowing his opinions on other players allows me a better read of him.

How?

[Leafsnail]

An unexplained vote can be scary because you don't know how serious the person making it was.  They can thus very awkward to respond to if you're scum trying to avoid suspicion.  The more awkward it is for scum to respond to things the better.

[Teneb]

PFP Question answering only

Unvote for now.

Deathsword, Vector: I believe each of your questions have been answered. Can you answer mine, now?

Because I've been so far in a single game with Ford, and knowing his opinions on other players allows me a better read of him.

In which way though? His interactions with others, or how you think he'll react to statements?

The main reason behind every RVS question I ask is to try to know better how a person thinks, how they react. I tend to ask these questions to people I tend not to have good reads on (either because I haven't played a lot with them or simply find it hard to read.

Deathsword:  Would you rather find scum D1 through a particularly clever RVS question or through a series of logical deductions?

I'd prefer to use logical deductions to find the scum, since a clever scum player might not be exposed by a RVS question.

I could ask - why not both - but instead: given the set up of using either a watch or a track on someone you suspect is scum judging purely by how they did their day game, what would you do and why?

If I suspect someone is scum, I'd rather track them. Scum are more likely to act on someone than to be acted on, as most scum roles have an action that can be performed on someone else.

Deathsword:

Deathsword, Vector: I believe each of your questions have been answered. Can you answer mine, now?

Because I've been so far in a single game with Ford, and knowing his opinions on other players allows me a better read of him.

How?

Look above.

Short on time. Weekend should help remedy that.

[Toaster]

UI:  How does passivity at RVS improve your chances of helping the town?


Deathsword:  What's the scummiest thing you've seen said so far?


Ford:  Do you find Tiruin's ability scummy?

[Vector]

Hapah, I decided I wanted to ask Tiruin a question, and then I picked the question.  I did not pick the question and then the player.  Yes, the question might have functioned better used on someone else.  No, I do not really care.  It did the job and I do not need to waste time dicking around optimizations above a certain threshold.

I played the ass-end of one game with Tiruin.  Your question assumes

a. I consider Tiruin more experienced than most (I don't, particularly; maybe I should)
b. I know more about Tiruin than any other player in the game (it's a three-way tie between Urist Imiknorris, Tiruin, and Deathsword for those I know least)

I have played with everyone in this game before.  I have known most of these people for almost three years.  Therefore your points are very silly.

I'll get to everything else later.  I'm feeling unusually tired.


Ah, wait.

Hey, Dariush!  Scumbucket!  Did I scare you off?  You seem unusually quiet. . .

[Vector]

*sigh*, I've got to clarify because the meds made that not make as much sense as I thought it would.

1. Even if your points applied--there was someone less experienced and who I knew less than Tiruin--I reason based on thresholds, not on absolute best outcomes.  Even so, that question might not be *the very absolute best question to ask Tiruin right now,* and might instead be optimized for a different class of player, but it was good enough.  That "someone else" didn't refer to a player in this game, but rather "people who share a certain class of characteristics."

2. Your points did not even apply, which makes me think you are full of hot air and just making noise.