Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fluoman]

Sutremaine cancels Efficiency: taken by mood.

[BoredVirulence]

Dwarves will indeed throw eachother, which does cause real damage. There is even a separate fighting report when skidding occurs. So far there are no serious injuries.

So far, it seems that the frequency of throws wouldn't help level up the doctor much. But that does mean the chances of your whole militia being disabled as a goblin siege arrives seems quite slim.

[StubbornAlcoholic]

One of my old forts had a 15z level pit that I would hurl Goblins into. There was no killing mechanism at the bottom, just the fall, and Goblins would frequently break lots of bones but survive and crawl about until caged or put down by a squad sent down there.

Unfortunately since the pit was narrow they would hit the walls on the way down, doing lots of damage (almost always broken spines or dented hips).

So if you had the merciless sadism for it, perhaps a 3 or so z-level drop with a retractable bridge would serve simply to break a few bones of a useless Dwarf you can station there, so your doctors can fix him up.

Frankly though, I find my current fort has no trouble training medical skills. Someone almost universally gets injured during Goblin sieges (my military is still using medicore copper armour) and the docs are doing a pretty good job actually without "encouragement".

[Sutremaine]

Diagnosis is a useful medical skill to have up to Novice on more than just your current CMD, as it enables more statuses in the Health tab of the z-screen. Everything else is a bonus, as dwarves will always complete a given task if they have time and materials.

So far, it seems that the frequency of throws wouldn't help level up the doctor much. But that does mean the chances of your whole militia being disabled as a goblin siege arrives seems quite slim.

You wouldn't be doing this on your proper militia, just the dwarves you don't need for anything else and who would otherwise be idling (apart from the loss of combat efficiency, your military dwarves aren't going to be in a position to receive throw damage). Throws are pretty rare, but with the sheer number of wrestling moves a skilled dwarf will do it won't be long before a throw does happen.

A dozen dwarves spread across four squads is where I'd start if I wanted a steady stream of injuries.

[BoredVirulence]

You wouldn't be doing this on your proper militia, just the dwarves you don't need for anything else and who would otherwise be idling (apart from the loss of combat efficiency, your military dwarves aren't going to be in a position to receive throw damage). Throws are pretty rare, but with the sheer number of wrestling moves a skilled dwarf will do it won't be long before a throw does happen.

A dozen dwarves spread across four squads is where I'd start if I wanted a steady stream of injuries.

I have 3 squads of 2 for a total of 6 dwarves constantly sparring. They are all accomplished wrestlers. I've seen 2 throws that did damage through the course of spring, both were minor bruising. I know at least a few other throws occured with no skidding. They are also in a large open barracks, a smaller one with walls or ramps might make it more damaging.

Its a neat idea, but I think that a small drop bridge on a similar population would be more effective, and easier to control.
Or something like having a single training spear in a major hallway. That would certainly cause damage, probably wouldn't be lethal even without armor, and the doctors get practice.

Still, I like the idea of my populace being useful. If that means they are all skilled wrestlers, thats a benefit. Dwarf fatalities involving misplaced socks during seiges might decrease significantly.

[Oaktree]

Another method would be to put a heavier object in a Coinstar and let it bludgeon your dwarves*.  I guess one could also skip some armor on the dwarves in a few places and see what sort of damage coins can do to bare skin or through simple clothes.

* - I had a squad in one and a member decided to shed his metal leggings.  (I guess do to a better pair appearing at a metal forge.)  Those few around the room a few times before I noticed the blood and stopped the training exercise. It ended up putting half the squad in the hospital with broken limbs.

[Sutremaine]

I have 3 squads of 2 for a total of 6 dwarves constantly sparring. They are all accomplished wrestlers. I've seen 2 throws that did damage through the course of spring, both were minor bruising.

What were they wearing? My dwarves were in (mostly masterwork) bronze, with helm, high boots, gauntlets, mail shirt, and leggings. No other clothing. I was still getting fractured bones through the bronze gauntlets and high boots, but nothing but organ and fat bruising through the mail shirt. I haven't seen any helm protection yet, although clearly there is some as they haven't bashed their brains out yet.

Treatment logs for the four dwarves I've had training:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

17th Limestone, 11: Right lower leg splinted
9th Opal, 11: Right hand splinted
16th Obsidian, 11: Right hand splinted
16th Granite, 12: Left upper arm splinted
22nd Granite, 12: Right lower arm splinted
7th Slate, 12: Left hand splinted
2nd Hematite, 12: Left lower arm splinted
26th Timber, 12: Right hand splinted
2nd Slate, 13: Left foot set
6th Hematite, 13: Left hand splinted

So, looking at it, not a huge amount of injuries (and one dwarf didn't have any medical history at all), but that was with making some sort of effort to keep the soldiers covered in metal.

Once I get my hauling routes set up I may start accepting migrants, and move my two trained founders into new roles as drill sergeant nasties and leave the military leadership to the trained migrants. If I set things up to allow falls from dodging and stop them from wearing gauntlets and boots entirely, I should be seeing a lot more snapped wrists.

[coldmonkey]

Stand them on a drawbridge and then raise it. As long as they aren't standing on a tile that'll be occupied by the raised bridge they'll just be tossed a couple of tiles or so and land hard on the ground, or at least according to my experience. Uh, not that I spend a lot of time torturing my unwanted immigrants or anything. Anyway, the damage ranges from none at all to broken spines and bashed in skulls, but give them a helmet and breastplate and you shouldn't get too many fatal accidents.

[Funk]

ash spears in a coinstar will get you loads of small cuts, just keep an eye on blood loss.

[Sutremaine]

Preliminary testing on the current population suggests that a one-level drop is not enough. A setup like the following will provide a two-level drop:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

z+0

#####
##@##
##+##
#...#
#.<.#
#...#
#####


z-1

#####
#####
#####
#...#
#.#.#
#...#
#####


z-2

#####
#####
#####
#,,,#
#,#,#
#,,,#
#####


1. None of the access is shown here. You'll need a down stair on z+1 to get into the drop chamber, and some way of getting dwarves from z-2 to either z+0 or the hospital.
2. The door (as represented by the +) is set to Internal, and the barracks have to be sized from the barracks furniture (@) while there's a path between the furniture and the up stair. A floor constructed after all the digging will be fine.
3. Masterwork leather is not sufficient to prevent this drop from jamming a dwarf's ribs into their heart. Any sort of metal mail shirt and helm should be mostly fine, although I wouldn't rule out lethal injuries from copper or bronze, or even anything else. The RNG can be a little extreme.
4. You can make a one-level drop and, after removing the ramps, fill the eight tiles with six lots of 6/7 water and two lots of 7/7 water. The 7/7 tiles allow the dwarf to climb out of the water once they reach Novice Swimmer, and the 6/7 tiles prevent drowning and hold the dwarf in the pool long enough to gain a significant amount of XP per drop. Injuries are something of a concern in this setup, though based on some DFHacking on an unconnected dwarf* even dwarves who can't walk will drag themselves out of water. Dwarves who would normally wait for recovery may also move if a civilian alert is activated, and I did this on a couple of occasions where masons were getting shot at by the magma crab.

*Got taken to the hospital, starting getting ignored at some point and started to dehydrate and starve. Study of the situation resulted in the titbit of information here, and in the end I retriggered a recovery job by dumping logs on her until she was sufficiently injured for medical care. Again.

Edit: I expect this would be a pretty good way of boosting Armour User skill while still using the regular military system, at least for dwarves who don't have the equipment to block or parry the ground. ...Can they even do that? I'm just going to assume they can, because that's the option that makes the most sense.

[MrWillsauce]

I've never had dwarves injure each other while sparring in the current addition. This includes my unarmored military armed entirely with adamantine battleaxes. Dwarves are just really good at tapping lightly.

[eliphas8]

Just throw any vampires you have down a three story drop. That should keep your medical staff busy for millenia as they patch up the never healing vamp.

[Sutremaine]

This includes my unarmored military armed entirely with adamantine battleaxes.

Take the battle axes away and see what's happened after six months.

[BoredVirulence]

I have 3 squads of 2 for a total of 6 dwarves constantly sparring. They are all accomplished wrestlers. I've seen 2 throws that did damage through the course of spring, both were minor bruising.

What were they wearing? My dwarves were in (mostly masterwork) bronze, with helm, high boots, gauntlets, mail shirt, and leggings. No other clothing. I was still getting fractured bones through the bronze gauntlets and high boots, but nothing but organ and fat bruising through the mail shirt. I haven't seen any helm protection yet, although clearly there is some as they haven't bashed their brains out yet.

Just clothes. No armor, no weapons. I think it has to do with the barracks being a very large room. If it were more hazardous for throws I might see more. I wonder what would happen if I put wooden training spears in upright spike traps in the barracks, would being thrown into those be a little more painful? Im certain adding uneccesary walls and ramps would.

[Kon]

I have 3 squads of 2 for a total of 6 dwarves constantly sparring. They are all accomplished wrestlers. I've seen 2 throws that did damage through the course of spring, both were minor bruising. I know at least a few other throws occured with no skidding. They are also in a large open barracks, a smaller one with walls or ramps might make it more damaging.

Its a neat idea, but I think that a small drop bridge on a similar population would be more effective, and easier to control.
Or something like having a single training spear in a major hallway. That would certainly cause damage, probably wouldn't be lethal even without armor, and the doctors get practice.

Still, I like the idea of my populace being useful. If that means they are all skilled wrestlers, thats a benefit. Dwarf fatalities involving misplaced socks during seiges might decrease significantly.

Due to the injuries I had last time I had wrestlers sparring, I've decided that next time I should just make a barracks in a large open area such that the barracks area is a good distance from any walls, since I don't want injuries. Your experience indicates that this might prevent wrestling sparring injuries. Back when I first starting playing DF, recruits were typically first trained in wrestling to quickly raise their attibutes. Of course, if you do want injuries, put the barracks in a very small room.